Discussion
You can say that again. 
Seriously though, GM have been trying very, very hard to avoid IP ending up in Chinese hands. Why would they stop now if they thought they had a case?
Even if they don't need the platform, their rivals would benefit from it and become stronger competitors to any GM business in China in future. That alone would be worth the legal wrangling, wouldn't it?
Seriously though, GM have been trying very, very hard to avoid IP ending up in Chinese hands. Why would they stop now if they thought they had a case?
Even if they don't need the platform, their rivals would benefit from it and become stronger competitors to any GM business in China in future. That alone would be worth the legal wrangling, wouldn't it?
The Hypno-Toad said:
"Listen GM, we can do this one of two ways. Either I can bog your legal team down in a petty lawsuit for a couple of years or you can surrender your rights to a platform you no longer want/need anyway and I'll f
k off. Your call."
This is the bit that doesn't make sense to me. If GM had enough influence over the Pheonix platform to sink Saab, then surely it is they who have the upper hand here. I'm no legal expert, but I would expect some sort of injunction preventing use of the platform until the end of any legal wranglings would be something GM would seek...k off. Your call."
groomi said:
The Hypno-Toad said:
"Listen GM, we can do this one of two ways. Either I can bog your legal team down in a petty lawsuit for a couple of years or you can surrender your rights to a platform you no longer want/need anyway and I'll fk off. Your call."
This is the bit that doesn't make sense to me. If GM had enough influence over the Pheonix platform to sink Saab, then surely it is they who have the upper hand here. I'm no legal expert, but I would expect some sort of injunction preventing use of the platform until the end of any legal wranglings would be something GM would seek...k off. Your call."
but I would still consider it an option. Especially when you consider that this would be a vehicle that would compete in a market place GM has no interest in at all. But when he was asked about the issue of GMs IP in the Phoenix, Muller has claimed that it wouldn't be a problem as Spyker could engineer out any GM product contribution.
And here's another cherry on top. The Swedish media is reporting that NEVS have until Friday to pay up the $245million they still owe for the remains of Saab in Trollhatten or the deal is off.
The dream of a fully electric saloon car, powered by wonder batteries that no one has yet seen, based on a 12 year old chassis that no one wanted to buy as a petrol model, hangs on a knife edge.
Well Friday came and went and NEVS paid up. The deal is done. Apparently they've also managed to get hold of the Saab brand name for the new cars which is a major surprise to most observers, although they can't use the previous badge or typeface.
So in 18 months time, will Saab return?
P.S. They also think that they own the Phoenix platform. That could get interesting....
So in 18 months time, will Saab return?
P.S. They also think that they own the Phoenix platform. That could get interesting....
'Fires up the thread resurrection unit'
Its alive! Alive I tells ye!!!
The receivers official report into the demise of Saab is published tomorrow. A couple of nuggets have already been leaked.
1.) They suggest that Saab/SWAN was already insolvent when the production line was first shut down. Which was the news item which launched this thread back at the of March 2011.
2.) They are very interested to know why, if was this case, 40 million SwK was paid to Mr Muller and GM between then and when the company finally went bust a year ago.
The Swedish press is also reporting that their Serious Fraud Office is about to launch an investigation into Saab/SWANs tax affairs.
Mr Muller is unavailable for comment.
Ah...oops..
Its alive! Alive I tells ye!!!
The receivers official report into the demise of Saab is published tomorrow. A couple of nuggets have already been leaked.
1.) They suggest that Saab/SWAN was already insolvent when the production line was first shut down. Which was the news item which launched this thread back at the of March 2011.
2.) They are very interested to know why, if was this case, 40 million SwK was paid to Mr Muller and GM between then and when the company finally went bust a year ago.
The Swedish press is also reporting that their Serious Fraud Office is about to launch an investigation into Saab/SWANs tax affairs.
Mr Muller is unavailable for comment.
Ah...oops..
Hi Toad , the thread has a pulse which is more than we can say for SAAB!
"The Swedish press is also reporting that their Serious Fraud Office is about to launch an investigation into Saab/SWANs tax affairs".... good luck with that Mr Swedish tax inspektor.
"The Swedish press is also reporting that their Serious Fraud Office is about to launch an investigation into Saab/SWANs tax affairs".... good luck with that Mr Swedish tax inspektor.
Edited by Dr Banjo on Thursday 29th November 20:27
Anybody fancy a look at the final report into the liquidation of SAAB CITY, then go to
www.grant-thornton.co.uk/portal
LOGIN--S01984
PASSWORD--190142111
Fill ya boots.
www.grant-thornton.co.uk/portal
LOGIN--S01984
PASSWORD--190142111
Fill ya boots.
Do the lights in here still work? Lets brush off the cobwebs and see if we can fire it up....
Three former board members of the company arrested and questioned. Released again pending further enquires. Muller has been requested to go in for questioning at a date to be confirmed but he has not been implicated or charged.....yet.
What are the Swedish authorites mainly interested in? It seems to be the employment status of certain directors within the former company, the methods by which they appear to have been paid and especially payments made to a company called TUG Holdings.
Now, where have we heard that name before?
The Hypno-Toad said:
The receivers official report into the demise of Saab is published tomorrow. A couple of nuggets have already been leaked.
2.) They are very interested to know why, if was this case, 40 million SwK was paid to Mr Muller and GM between then and when the company finally went bust a year ago.
The Swedish press is also reporting that their Serious Fraud Office is about to launch an investigation into Saab/SWANs tax affairs.
Spykers head office in Holland raided by the Swedish Fraud Squad this weekend in reference to the tax affairs of the board of Saab.2.) They are very interested to know why, if was this case, 40 million SwK was paid to Mr Muller and GM between then and when the company finally went bust a year ago.
The Swedish press is also reporting that their Serious Fraud Office is about to launch an investigation into Saab/SWANs tax affairs.
Three former board members of the company arrested and questioned. Released again pending further enquires. Muller has been requested to go in for questioning at a date to be confirmed but he has not been implicated or charged.....yet.
What are the Swedish authorites mainly interested in? It seems to be the employment status of certain directors within the former company, the methods by which they appear to have been paid and especially payments made to a company called TUG Holdings.
Now, where have we heard that name before?
In case anyone is interested or even remembers this;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19153200
To absolutely no ones surprise at all, it was thrown out of court yesterday by a Judge in Detroit.
If he had have won that case, all of the $3 billion would have gone directly to Spyker (Owner. Mr V.Muller.), there would have been nothing for any of Saabs creditors.
Good job he never had a prayer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19153200
To absolutely no ones surprise at all, it was thrown out of court yesterday by a Judge in Detroit.
If he had have won that case, all of the $3 billion would have gone directly to Spyker (Owner. Mr V.Muller.), there would have been nothing for any of Saabs creditors.
Good job he never had a prayer.
Edited by The Hypno-Toad on Thursday 13th June 07:28
A source has sent me a Swedish link that says that virtually a year to the day since they tried to save it NEVS, the half Swedish/half Chinese company that bought the remains of SAAB to turn it into an all electric brand, are laying off workers and have basically run out of money.
It is rumoured (here we go again...) that are trying to sell it on to Mahindra (here we go again...).
SAAB gone. Again.
It is rumoured (here we go again...) that are trying to sell it on to Mahindra (here we go again...).
SAAB gone. Again.
Looks like they're suspending production for a month.
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20140520/ANE/30...
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20140520/ANE/30...
Autonews said:
STOCKHOLM (Reuters) -- Saab production has been temporarily halted because of a lack of funds at China's National Electric Vehicle Sweden, the company said.
NEVS, which last year resumed low-volume production of the Saab brand after it bought the bankrupt iconic Swedish marque, said Tuesday it currently did not have enough cash to pay outstanding debt.
"The reason is that NEVS' part-owner, Qingbo Investment Co., has not fulfilled its commitment to, when necessary, finance NEVS' activity," it said in a statement.
"NEVS is therefore making a temporary and controlled halt of production, which hitherto has been six cars per day, and is reducing agency staff."
The Trollhattan plant in south Sweden will be idled for four weeks beginning Thursday, NEVS spokesman Mikael Ostlund said.
Qingbo is the investment agency of the city of Qingdao, which bought a 22 percent stake in NEVS last year and has ordered a fleet of 200 electric Saab vehicles for the Chinese city.
"Qingbo hasn't terminated the deal, they say they will complete it. But we haven't received the financing they had agreed with our main owner," Ostlund said.
NEVS is betting on an as-yet-unbuilt electric version of a decade-old Saab model to bring the brand back from the dead. It is targeting its home market of China, where the government is promoting clean automotive technology.
The battery version of the current model will compete against the likes of BMW, Volkswagen and Ford in one of the most competitive industries in the world.
NEVS said it was negotiating with another carmaker to co-develop a new platform for new models. It is also in talks with another carmaker about buying a stake in NEVS.
"We are now seeking bridge solutions until sometime in June when we expect to have the result of the discussions with the intended partners," Ostlund said.
NEVS, which last year resumed low-volume production of the Saab brand after it bought the bankrupt iconic Swedish marque, said Tuesday it currently did not have enough cash to pay outstanding debt.
"The reason is that NEVS' part-owner, Qingbo Investment Co., has not fulfilled its commitment to, when necessary, finance NEVS' activity," it said in a statement.
"NEVS is therefore making a temporary and controlled halt of production, which hitherto has been six cars per day, and is reducing agency staff."
The Trollhattan plant in south Sweden will be idled for four weeks beginning Thursday, NEVS spokesman Mikael Ostlund said.
Qingbo is the investment agency of the city of Qingdao, which bought a 22 percent stake in NEVS last year and has ordered a fleet of 200 electric Saab vehicles for the Chinese city.
"Qingbo hasn't terminated the deal, they say they will complete it. But we haven't received the financing they had agreed with our main owner," Ostlund said.
NEVS is betting on an as-yet-unbuilt electric version of a decade-old Saab model to bring the brand back from the dead. It is targeting its home market of China, where the government is promoting clean automotive technology.
The battery version of the current model will compete against the likes of BMW, Volkswagen and Ford in one of the most competitive industries in the world.
NEVS said it was negotiating with another carmaker to co-develop a new platform for new models. It is also in talks with another carmaker about buying a stake in NEVS.
"We are now seeking bridge solutions until sometime in June when we expect to have the result of the discussions with the intended partners," Ostlund said.
The Hypno-Toad said:
A source has sent me a Swedish link that says that virtually a year to the day since they tried to save it NEVS, the half Swedish/half Chinese company that bought the remains of SAAB to turn it into an all electric brand, are laying off workers and have basically run out of money.
It is rumoured (here we go again...) that are trying to sell it on to Mahindra (here we go again...).
SAAB gone. Again.
As you say, here we go again It is rumoured (here we go again...) that are trying to sell it on to Mahindra (here we go again...).
SAAB gone. Again.
As ever, the truth may be hard to tease out, but it looks on the face of it like yet another Chinese "saviour" lacking the will (political or otherwise) or the means to follow through with commitments made in the face of the cold reality of pouring large amounts of money into Trollhattan.
Either it's a case of once bitten, twice shy or because NEVS haven't got Mr Mullers silver tongue, but it seems the bankruptcy petitions and debt notices from NEVS suppliers are flying in thick and fast...
I don't think its going to be anywhere near as long and drawn out this time as it was the last.
I don't think its going to be anywhere near as long and drawn out this time as it was the last.
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