Clutch life on a Cooper S?
Discussion
Can anyone give me a bit of advice?
I've just emailed Mini about this and would appreciate any comments.
On 16 December 2009, we purchased this vehicle from (dealer name provided).
The car had about 3,500 miles on the clock and was an ex-demonstrator.
A few weeks back, and still with less than 10,000 miles on the clock, the clutch went and took the flywheel with it.
When I told the dealer that, in our opinion, it should have been a warranty issue they denied this and would not release the car without cleared funds – about £1,820 worth, inclusive of VAT.
We have paid this to get the car back but I am advised by both ATS and others, that a clutch should not go like this and just wonder how it was driven as a demonstrator.
Either way, I still strongly feel that this should have been a warranty claim and would appreciate your comments please.
Surely, the clutch should last longer than this!
I've just emailed Mini about this and would appreciate any comments.
On 16 December 2009, we purchased this vehicle from (dealer name provided).
The car had about 3,500 miles on the clock and was an ex-demonstrator.
A few weeks back, and still with less than 10,000 miles on the clock, the clutch went and took the flywheel with it.
When I told the dealer that, in our opinion, it should have been a warranty issue they denied this and would not release the car without cleared funds – about £1,820 worth, inclusive of VAT.
We have paid this to get the car back but I am advised by both ATS and others, that a clutch should not go like this and just wonder how it was driven as a demonstrator.
Either way, I still strongly feel that this should have been a warranty claim and would appreciate your comments please.
Surely, the clutch should last longer than this!
They have responded....
Thank you for your email dated April 13, 2011, regarding your experiences with your MINI. I appreciate you are disappointed that your vehicle has required a replacement clutch and flywheel, due to its relatively low mileage and it being an ex demonstrator model. I am sorry for the concern this matter is causing you.
I can confirm that MINI ensure all our vehicles are constructed to the highest build quality tolerances, utilising the best quality materials and leading edge technology. Thus being the case, we would like to think our customers experience fewer problems than they might with other brands. However, we are of course realistic and do recognise that there may be occasions when components may fail and need to be replaced earlier than we would like. It is for this reason that we supply all our new vehicles with a comprehensive three year dealer warranty, with the option to extend this before it expires. This policy is in place to protect our customers in the event of a manufacturing related fault.
I acknowledge that you feel the clutch and flywheel on your MINI have required replacement prematurely and I can advise you that MINI collate failure reports, customer feedback and part order information, to determine if a fault is common. The premature failure of the clutch and flywheel is not an inherent fault, therefore, no action has been taken to carry out repairs free of charge.
In order to progress your enquiry, I have been in contact with Mr XXXX, Service Manager at XXXXXXXXX. He has advised that due to the nature of the clutch, it is subject to wear and tear and Mr XXXXXX confirmed that, after inspection, the issue your vehicle has experienced was not due to a manufacturing defect. Whilst I understand that the repair costs have caused concern to you and it is disappointing that this has happened, it is difficult to determine the average lifespan of components that are subject to this kind of wear.
I apologise that you have had cause to write to us under these circumstances and understand that you are concerned about how your MINI has been driven as an ex demonstrator model and I can advise you that, should your vehicle experience any further issues that a MINI Approved Dealership consider to be caused by a manufacturing defect, they are able to raise this matter directly with us.
I have logged your disappointment on our system under case number --------, which will be used as part of our ongoing product auditing programme. If you have any future queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
b
ks springs to mind!
Thank you for your email dated April 13, 2011, regarding your experiences with your MINI. I appreciate you are disappointed that your vehicle has required a replacement clutch and flywheel, due to its relatively low mileage and it being an ex demonstrator model. I am sorry for the concern this matter is causing you.
I can confirm that MINI ensure all our vehicles are constructed to the highest build quality tolerances, utilising the best quality materials and leading edge technology. Thus being the case, we would like to think our customers experience fewer problems than they might with other brands. However, we are of course realistic and do recognise that there may be occasions when components may fail and need to be replaced earlier than we would like. It is for this reason that we supply all our new vehicles with a comprehensive three year dealer warranty, with the option to extend this before it expires. This policy is in place to protect our customers in the event of a manufacturing related fault.
I acknowledge that you feel the clutch and flywheel on your MINI have required replacement prematurely and I can advise you that MINI collate failure reports, customer feedback and part order information, to determine if a fault is common. The premature failure of the clutch and flywheel is not an inherent fault, therefore, no action has been taken to carry out repairs free of charge.
In order to progress your enquiry, I have been in contact with Mr XXXX, Service Manager at XXXXXXXXX. He has advised that due to the nature of the clutch, it is subject to wear and tear and Mr XXXXXX confirmed that, after inspection, the issue your vehicle has experienced was not due to a manufacturing defect. Whilst I understand that the repair costs have caused concern to you and it is disappointing that this has happened, it is difficult to determine the average lifespan of components that are subject to this kind of wear.
I apologise that you have had cause to write to us under these circumstances and understand that you are concerned about how your MINI has been driven as an ex demonstrator model and I can advise you that, should your vehicle experience any further issues that a MINI Approved Dealership consider to be caused by a manufacturing defect, they are able to raise this matter directly with us.
I have logged your disappointment on our system under case number --------, which will be used as part of our ongoing product auditing programme. If you have any future queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
b
ks springs to mind!
same letter they have sent out to the last xx amount of people with them failing early. Its becoming quite a common issue on the new 2006 onwards models to see them fail early.
I would try another route as with mini you don't always get anywhere. Its a grey area and the older mini had a similar issue but a lot of the time it was changed under good will or 50% cost covered by BMW however the early failed clutches were generally about 30K no 10K that is not normal wear.
I would try another route as with mini you don't always get anywhere. Its a grey area and the older mini had a similar issue but a lot of the time it was changed under good will or 50% cost covered by BMW however the early failed clutches were generally about 30K no 10K that is not normal wear.
It is a problem as with miss use it is posible to ware a clutch out very quickly. I would get all the online etc statments of people haveing problems with the clutch as well as pointing out that the car was purchesed via there network and was inspected befor it was sold to you. They must have seen the pore use of the clutch when it was being used as a demo car and not informed you. I would state that you are looking for a contrabution to the costs. If you tell them waht you are after some times they will give it to you rather than wast there time. Keep on with it and good luke.
Similar thing happened to me.
Bought an 18 month old Cooper S with 18K miles and 4 weeks later the clutch completely failed.
The car was recovered to a main dealer in Watford and not the one I bought it from which was unfortunately 120 miles away. Said garage wanted my card details because a thousand pound would be required to cover their labour etc should the fault not be covered by warranty. I told them to fk off.
I then rang the dealer I purchased it from who arranged it to be moved back to themselves.
Long story short, the clutch was replaced free of charge, I was given a courtesy car for a week - albeit an Astra - and they delivered the car back to me despite the distance.
Sounds like I was lucky.
Bought an 18 month old Cooper S with 18K miles and 4 weeks later the clutch completely failed.
The car was recovered to a main dealer in Watford and not the one I bought it from which was unfortunately 120 miles away. Said garage wanted my card details because a thousand pound would be required to cover their labour etc should the fault not be covered by warranty. I told them to f
k off.I then rang the dealer I purchased it from who arranged it to be moved back to themselves.
Long story short, the clutch was replaced free of charge, I was given a courtesy car for a week - albeit an Astra - and they delivered the car back to me despite the distance.
Sounds like I was lucky.
Our 19k miles 06 R53 one started suffering the noise on take off & was replaced inc flywheel FOC (Main Dealer) after mentioning similar cases mentioned on forums. To me a worn out one is trickier as you could have abused it, same goes with worn out brakes/tyres. Maybe an ex demo is a factor too ?
Edited by CO2000 on Wednesday 20th April 16:10
The clutch failing is one thing but the flywheel should last a lot lot longer.
I'm guessing the biggest part of the bill was flywheel related?
If I were you I'd push for the flywheel part of the bill to be reimbursed as a minimum. Take it to small claims if you have to, its not too expensive for you.
I'm guessing the biggest part of the bill was flywheel related?
If I were you I'd push for the flywheel part of the bill to be reimbursed as a minimum. Take it to small claims if you have to, its not too expensive for you.
The clutch on ours went at 60k miles ( before we bought it, luckily) and personally I think that is a very low mileage, considering clutches should go well into 100k plus miles without issues. 10K miles is just laughable.We had a clutch issue on our Honda accord diesel and even though it was out of warranty ( was at 23k miles) Honda changed it as a goodwill gesture, without question, although I had to pay £400 towards the bill, which was stomachable. I would look at speaking to legal eagles about fit for purpose and get as much information possible showing others having the same issues and se what you can do to get your monies back.
Long time PH lurker and Mini owner here feeling compelled to post for the first time.
Not long ago I had my Cooper S serviced at a large BMW dealer ship in Leicester. When I went to collect the car I witnessed an employee start up another Mini, apply what sounded like full revs then slowly reverse the car into the service area, all the time burning the clutch. When it came to a stop there was smoke bellowing out of the engine bay. I looked in horror at the service representive who was dealing with me, she said "It's a good job it's one of ours!". Mmm, not after you've sold it on to some poor unsuspecting customer!
My point is I read lots of stories about early clutch failures on all types of cars, and can't help but think that 99% of the time it's down to abuse or poor driving style. I see cars pulling away with far too many revs all the time- the OP may not be one of these people but who knows what kind of monkeys were at the wheel while his car was a demonstrator?
And how can a clutch last only 10,000 miles on one car and well over 100,000 miles on an identical model? Surely there can't be that much variation in component quality given the stringent quality control you get in a modern factory?
That said, hope you get some cash back OP
Not long ago I had my Cooper S serviced at a large BMW dealer ship in Leicester. When I went to collect the car I witnessed an employee start up another Mini, apply what sounded like full revs then slowly reverse the car into the service area, all the time burning the clutch. When it came to a stop there was smoke bellowing out of the engine bay. I looked in horror at the service representive who was dealing with me, she said "It's a good job it's one of ours!". Mmm, not after you've sold it on to some poor unsuspecting customer!
My point is I read lots of stories about early clutch failures on all types of cars, and can't help but think that 99% of the time it's down to abuse or poor driving style. I see cars pulling away with far too many revs all the time- the OP may not be one of these people but who knows what kind of monkeys were at the wheel while his car was a demonstrator?
And how can a clutch last only 10,000 miles on one car and well over 100,000 miles on an identical model? Surely there can't be that much variation in component quality given the stringent quality control you get in a modern factory?
That said, hope you get some cash back OP
MarioKart said:
Long time PH lurker and Mini owner here feeling compelled to post for the first time.
Not long ago I had my Cooper S serviced at a large BMW dealer ship in Leicester. When I went to collect the car I witnessed an employee start up another Mini, apply what sounded like full revs then slowly reverse the car into the service area, all the time burning the clutch. When it came to a stop there was smoke bellowing out of the engine bay. I looked in horror at the service representive who was dealing with me, she said "It's a good job it's one of ours!". Mmm, not after you've sold it on to some poor unsuspecting customer!
My point is I read lots of stories about early clutch failures on all types of cars, and can't help but think that 99% of the time it's down to abuse or poor driving style. I see cars pulling away with far too many revs all the time- the OP may not be one of these people but who knows what kind of monkeys were at the wheel while his car was a demonstrator?
And how can a clutch last only 10,000 miles on one car and well over 100,000 miles on an identical model? Surely there can't be that much variation in component quality given the stringent quality control you get in a modern factory?
That said, hope you get some cash back OP
I hear what you are saying & I said similar but regarding the death rattle there is something wrong (ie design flaw) if new clutches rattle a few hundred miles later.Not long ago I had my Cooper S serviced at a large BMW dealer ship in Leicester. When I went to collect the car I witnessed an employee start up another Mini, apply what sounded like full revs then slowly reverse the car into the service area, all the time burning the clutch. When it came to a stop there was smoke bellowing out of the engine bay. I looked in horror at the service representive who was dealing with me, she said "It's a good job it's one of ours!". Mmm, not after you've sold it on to some poor unsuspecting customer!
My point is I read lots of stories about early clutch failures on all types of cars, and can't help but think that 99% of the time it's down to abuse or poor driving style. I see cars pulling away with far too many revs all the time- the OP may not be one of these people but who knows what kind of monkeys were at the wheel while his car was a demonstrator?
And how can a clutch last only 10,000 miles on one car and well over 100,000 miles on an identical model? Surely there can't be that much variation in component quality given the stringent quality control you get in a modern factory?
That said, hope you get some cash back OP
Get a lawyer with a passion for cars.
I had a Grif engine throw two pistons out at 35,000 miles. Warrantee company, after metallurgists looked at dismantled engine and found nothing wrong, clear oil and water galleries and an immaculate FSH, deemed it "normal wear and tear", or bill for £12,000 as we on the receiving end would know it.
One call to a lawyer and car nut mate, and 20 minutes later the (very trustworthy) dealer phoned me "the warrantee company have agreed to fit a new engine and all ancils Mr SeeFive".
The snag I see in your case is they already have your money, and I have no idea what the old parts looked like. So I'd say do not let this go unless an independent expert can show signs of abuse on your clutch (which could be any old clutch they have lying around, and not yours of course by now...).
Difficult to know what to do really, but it seems that if you have not abused it, you are being tucked up.
I had a Grif engine throw two pistons out at 35,000 miles. Warrantee company, after metallurgists looked at dismantled engine and found nothing wrong, clear oil and water galleries and an immaculate FSH, deemed it "normal wear and tear", or bill for £12,000 as we on the receiving end would know it.
One call to a lawyer and car nut mate, and 20 minutes later the (very trustworthy) dealer phoned me "the warrantee company have agreed to fit a new engine and all ancils Mr SeeFive".
The snag I see in your case is they already have your money, and I have no idea what the old parts looked like. So I'd say do not let this go unless an independent expert can show signs of abuse on your clutch (which could be any old clutch they have lying around, and not yours of course by now...).
Difficult to know what to do really, but it seems that if you have not abused it, you are being tucked up.
Well they have got away with it.
Mini said the dealer reckoned it was wear and tear and inferred that it was down to the driver. Neither the dealer not Mini were prepared to do anything about it, so that is going to be the last Mini that we buy and we've bought four so far.
As Mini are owned by BMW and based at the same dealership, I doubt we'll be buying any more BMWs either and we've had a few of those too.
Their Customer Service is pathetic......
Mini said the dealer reckoned it was wear and tear and inferred that it was down to the driver. Neither the dealer not Mini were prepared to do anything about it, so that is going to be the last Mini that we buy and we've bought four so far.
As Mini are owned by BMW and based at the same dealership, I doubt we'll be buying any more BMWs either and we've had a few of those too.
Their Customer Service is pathetic......
Davel said:
Well they have got away with it.
Mini said the dealer reckoned it was wear and tear and inferred that it was down to the driver. Neither the dealer not Mini were prepared to do anything about it, so that is going to be the last Mini that we buy and we've bought four so far.
As Mini are owned by BMW and based at the same dealership, I doubt we'll be buying any more BMWs either and we've had a few of those too.
Their Customer Service is pathetic......
So what did they say that the driver was doing wrong? Riding the clutch (which would cause one side of the centre plate to wear more than the other), or ripping away at 4000revs and stepping off the clutch. They have a call of duty to let you know so that you can avoid another clutch at 20,000 miles.Mini said the dealer reckoned it was wear and tear and inferred that it was down to the driver. Neither the dealer not Mini were prepared to do anything about it, so that is going to be the last Mini that we buy and we've bought four so far.
As Mini are owned by BMW and based at the same dealership, I doubt we'll be buying any more BMWs either and we've had a few of those too.
Their Customer Service is pathetic......
I cannot see how a reasonably robust clutch in a road going car can be burnt out in 10k miles on a sub 200hp car. Rip the middle out of the centre plate - yes, but really, wear it out. I habitually hold my cars on the clutch on hill junctions, and still do not burn clutches in 100,000 miles, let alone 10,000.
The fact that you have had 4 minis without this problem before probably is an indication that this was not driver error on your behalf.
You have been rolled over. Make some noise about it, name and shame (not on here of course) as it must have been in a state when you got it due to the "demonstrations", or it was a faulty component, or faulty car that could develop the same fault again. Are you a member of the AA or RAC? Speak to their legal people and see if they can help.
10k as said is laughable. You'd need to be a track driver to wear it out that quick. With flywheel problems too, there was obviously something amiss before you took it on.
I would have wanted to inspect the parts too (although not much good if you don't know what to look for).
What you should have done is gone straight to the the car mag weeklies, in fact I would still do it, like Auto Express. They love stories like this, whereas the dealers 'hate' the bad publicity and usually give in.
Don't just slag off the marque. You can get this sort of problem and be fobbed off by any of 'em. 'All' cars can go wrong. If it's a manufacturing or dealer fault, give 'em what they hate. Bad publicity in the media.
I would have wanted to inspect the parts too (although not much good if you don't know what to look for).
What you should have done is gone straight to the the car mag weeklies, in fact I would still do it, like Auto Express. They love stories like this, whereas the dealers 'hate' the bad publicity and usually give in.
Don't just slag off the marque. You can get this sort of problem and be fobbed off by any of 'em. 'All' cars can go wrong. If it's a manufacturing or dealer fault, give 'em what they hate. Bad publicity in the media.
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