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Efbe
4,855 posts
35 months
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fergywales said: Efbe said: Some out of date information along with some specifics to a local area Licensing law has moved on quite a bit in the last 5 years. Most of your post is now out of date, some of it is locally applied bylaws and your comment regarding revocation of a licence is so far off the mark I cannot comment! really, i didn't think councils moved on that fast! but still, the council will still have details of the licence, so should be able to tell you exactly what they can and can't do edit: anyhow, do tell, what's changed since the 2003 licensing act stuff and 24hour implemenation?
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fergywales
1,624 posts
63 months
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Efbe said: fergywales said: Efbe said: Some out of date information along with some specifics to a local area Licensing law has moved on quite a bit in the last 5 years. Most of your post is now out of date, some of it is locally applied bylaws and your comment regarding revocation of a licence is so far off the mark I cannot comment! really, i didn't think councils moved on that fast! but still, the council will still have details of the licence, so should be able to tell you exactly what they can and can't do edit: anyhow, do tell, what's changed since the 2003 licensing act stuff and 24hour implemenation? Well, you may want to give a little bit of thought to what happened in 2007 and the impact and adjustments that LAs have had to make upon licensed premises and the enforcement of environmental health, licensing laws, discretion to DPS authority over areas specified in plans etc. That'll give you a start on the matter raised in this thread, I could go on for a while 
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Efbe
4,855 posts
35 months
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fergywales said: Efbe said: fergywales said: Efbe said: Some out of date information along with some specifics to a local area Licensing law has moved on quite a bit in the last 5 years. Most of your post is now out of date, some of it is locally applied bylaws and your comment regarding revocation of a licence is so far off the mark I cannot comment! really, i didn't think councils moved on that fast! but still, the council will still have details of the licence, so should be able to tell you exactly what they can and can't do edit: anyhow, do tell, what's changed since the 2003 licensing act stuff and 24hour implemenation? Well, you may want to give a little bit of thought to what happened in 2007 and the impact and adjustments that LAs have had to make upon licensed premises and the enforcement of environmental health, licensing laws, discretion to DPS authority over areas specified in plans etc. That'll give you a start on the matter raised in this thread, I could go on for a while I left the public sector shortly after 24 hour licensing came in, so the 2007 stuff is all new to me. What happened with the plans on the licence?
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Derek Smith
16,015 posts
117 months
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fergywales said: Firstly, no such thing as a 'music licence', it is a part of a venue's premises licence, listed under entertainment specifics. Secondly, you cannot object once it has been granted, you can make a complaint or application with grounds to revoke to the LA licensing department, who may choose to review the licence. Finally, any indoor or outdoor area of a venue has to be specified within the plan which forms part of the premises licence. Sorry for not using the technical language. I'm not too sure that my statement that you can object was really that confusing. Just because an area is in the curtiledge of the building does not mean that the licence applies to it. Entertainment in a beer garden is to be avoided but should not start before opening hours and should stop before 9pm. According to my (rough) notes, ancillary disruption should be controlled. If there are problems around closing time then advice should be given to have doormen to control punters and cabbies. There is also a requirement that the pub should be sympathetic to neighbours and if there is going to be some sort of increase in noise for a specific even then they should be informed (I have consulted crossed through and informed put in its place.) There used to be an exemption for 2 musicians but this was removed in 2003(?). A bit in caps states that the local environmental health services should be the first bit of advice given to complainants to police. This via phone. This is the advice given to complainants who phoned my force. However, I would suggest that a one-off is not sufficient to merit any action. My advice would be to approach the licencees and ask that in future they be given sufficient notice of any such intention of holding entertainment in the garden to give sufficient time to put objections and to consult with other residents. Any lack of cooperation should be noted. Incidentally, it is enough to have a piano or a karaoke machine on premises, even if not used, to require music to be licensed.
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fergywales
1,624 posts
63 months
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Efbe said: fergywales said: Efbe said: fergywales said: Efbe said: Some out of date information along with some specifics to a local area Licensing law has moved on quite a bit in the last 5 years. Most of your post is now out of date, some of it is locally applied bylaws and your comment regarding revocation of a licence is so far off the mark I cannot comment! really, i didn't think councils moved on that fast! but still, the council will still have details of the licence, so should be able to tell you exactly what they can and can't do edit: anyhow, do tell, what's changed since the 2003 licensing act stuff and 24hour implemenation? Well, you may want to give a little bit of thought to what happened in 2007 and the impact and adjustments that LAs have had to make upon licensed premises and the enforcement of environmental health, licensing laws, discretion to DPS authority over areas specified in plans etc. That'll give you a start on the matter raised in this thread, I could go on for a while I left the public sector shortly after 24 hour licensing came in, so the 2007 stuff is all new to me. What happened with the plans on the licence? The 'stuff' in 2007 was the smoking ban, and the backlash of changes required by pubs/clubs to all of a sudden being expected to control their patrons not only inside, but outside, and without alienating their customers any more than 'sorry, Mr. Regular, but you need to stand outside if you want a fag with your pint'. Plans submitted with premises licence applications/renewals/variations now must include both inside and outside areas where customers would be considered to use regularly whilst visiting the venue. Edited for spelling courtesy of Peroni 
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fergywales
1,624 posts
63 months
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Derek Smith said: fergywales said: Firstly, no such thing as a 'music licence', it is a part of a venue's premises licence, listed under entertainment specifics. Secondly, you cannot object once it has been granted, you can make a complaint or application with grounds to revoke to the LA licensing department, who may choose to review the licence. Finally, any indoor or outdoor area of a venue has to be specified within the plan which forms part of the premises licence. Sorry for not using the technical language. I'm not too sure that my statement that you can object was really that confusing. Just because an area is in the curtiledge of the building does not mean that the licence applies to it. Entertainment in a beer garden is to be avoided but should not start before opening hours and should stop before 9pm. According to my (rough) notes, ancillary disruption should be controlled. If there are problems around closing time then advice should be given to have doormen to control punters and cabbies. There is also a requirement that the pub should be sympathetic to neighbours and if there is going to be some sort of increase in noise for a specific even then they should be informed (I have consulted crossed through and informed put in its place.) There used to be an exemption for 2 musicians but this was removed in 2003(?). A bit in caps states that the local environmental health services should be the first bit of advice given to complainants to police. This via phone. This is the advice given to complainants who phoned my force. However, I would suggest that a one-off is not sufficient to merit any action. My advice would be to approach the licencees and ask that in future they be given sufficient notice of any such intention of holding entertainment in the garden to give sufficient time to put objections and to consult with other residents. Any lack of cooperation should be noted. Incidentally, it is enough to have a piano or a karaoke machine on premises, even if not used, to require music to be licensed. I do not know how old the information you are quoting from is, but it is out of date. Suggest researching the area of law.
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Efbe
4,855 posts
35 months
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fergywales said: The 'stuff' in 2007 was the smoking ban, and the backlash of changes required by pubs/clubs to all of a sudden being expected to control their patrons not only inside, but outside, and without alienating their customers any more than 'sorry, Mr. Regular, but you need to stand outside if you want a fag with your pint'.
Plans submitted with premises licence applications/renewals/alterations now must include both inside and outside areas where customers would be considered to use regularly whilst visiting the venue. ah right, makes sense. do you work in this area?
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fergywales
1,624 posts
63 months
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Efbe said: fergywales said: The 'stuff' in 2007 was the smoking ban, and the backlash of changes required by pubs/clubs to all of a sudden being expected to control their patrons not only inside, but outside, and without alienating their customers any more than 'sorry, Mr. Regular, but you need to stand outside if you want a fag with your pint'.
Plans submitted with premises licence applications/renewals/alterations now must include both inside and outside areas where customers would be considered to use regularly whilst visiting the venue. ah right, makes sense. do you work in this area? Since 2004, have had 19 pubs/clubs. Gave it all up in 2010 to concentrate on law degree full time. So, I sort of got my knowledge from both sides, but I am also part of the current Home Office / Department for Culture, Media & Sports review and rebalancing consultations of licensing act in the UK.
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mcflurry
7,528 posts
122 months
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If it's only one day, then why not get a few mates around, drink beer at your house and enjoy the free music event
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bad company
1,866 posts
135 months
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I just came across this thread after the pub next door to me had a band playing live in their garden until 11 pm yesterday.
Should I check with the local authority to see if they are allowed to do this?
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gazza285
427 posts
77 months
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bad company said: I just came across this thread after the pub next door to me had a band playing live in their garden until 11 pm yesterday.
Should I check with the local authority to see if they are allowed to do this? An apt user name perhaps?
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5STM5
90 posts
18 months
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fergywales said: Since 2004, have had 19 pubs/clubs. Gave it all up in 2010 to concentrate on law degree full time. So, I sort of got my knowledge from both sides, but I am also part of the current Home Office / Department for Culture, Media & Sports review and rebalancing consultations of licensing act in the UK. In 6 years you owned/managed 19 pubs or clubs. Really?
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SV8Predator
758 posts
34 months
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5STM5 said: In 6 years you owned/managed 19 pubs or clubs. Really? Doesn't sound unusual to me for a businessman in that field. What have you achieved in the past 6 years 5STM5? Anything. . . ?
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silvagod
595 posts
29 months
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Pointless posts are...pointless :P
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bad company
1,866 posts
135 months
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gazza285 said: An apt user name perhaps? You try living next to a music pub & your views may change.
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skwdenyer
5,160 posts
109 months
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bad company said: gazza285 said: An apt user name perhaps? You try living next to a music pub & your views may change. Most of the people I know in that situation moved in long after the 'music pub' became a 'music pub'. They have only themselves to blame for not bothering to do any research whatsoever. That doesn't stop them complaining, however. You, however, may not be in that boat, in which case it is very different. The issue of pub neighbours is far worse than that, however. For instance, one pub, very local to me, had to remove its pavement tables after over 100 years of use due to the sustained campaign of one resident who waited less than a month after moving in before starting their campaign. Now, not only have the tables gone, but smoking drinkers may not take their drinks outside after 11pm at all, the pub (a tiny thing) must employ a marshal in hi-viz on Fri/Sat/Sun nights to ensure that drinkers do not cross the road (3m wide single carriageway), and so on.
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joe_90
3,345 posts
100 months
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skwdenyer said: bad company said: gazza285 said: An apt user name perhaps? You try living next to a music pub & your views may change. Most of the people I know in that situation moved in long after the 'music pub' became a 'music pub'. They have only themselves to blame for not bothering to do any research whatsoever. That doesn't stop them complaining, however. You, however, may not be in that boat, in which case it is very different. The issue of pub neighbours is far worse than that, however. For instance, one pub, very local to me, had to remove its pavement tables after over 100 years of use due to the sustained campaign of one resident who waited less than a month after moving in before starting their campaign. Now, not only have the tables gone, but smoking drinkers may not take their drinks outside after 11pm at all, the pub (a tiny thing) must employ a marshal in hi-viz on Fri/Sat/Sun nights to ensure that drinkers do not cross the road (3m wide single carriageway), and so on. Why do idiots do this, you must live in a small little village, and that person must have just pissed everyone else off in the village, why would they do that?
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Rude-boy
15,509 posts
102 months
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joe_90 said: Why do idiots do this, you must live in a small little village, and that person must have just pissed everyone else off in the village, why would they do that? Because in this wonderful modern World we live in they can contain themselves in their little home and never need to interact with the village they live in or the rest of the inhabitants. That is of course until they get a three day power cut or the water is cut off for a day or the weather closes in and makes the roads impassable. At that point they may learn what it means to be isolated. I would lay money on them having moved from the city or and estate. Pubs are a dynamic. Anyone who has see the way that the trade has been pushed in the last 20 years will know that ‘the Boozer’ is almost dead and gone. Food and Entertainment are seen by many as the salvation of the business and tend to mean that the ‘quite little watering hole’ can quite often become a bit of a noise box on a summer evening.
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joe_90
3,345 posts
100 months
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Rude-boy said: joe_90 said: Why do idiots do this, you must live in a small little village, and that person must have just pissed everyone else off in the village, why would they do that? Because in this wonderful modern World we live in they can contain themselves in their little home and never need to interact with the village they live in or the rest of the inhabitants. That is of course until they get a three day power cut or the water is cut off for a day or the weather closes in and makes the roads impassable. At that point they may learn what it means to be isolated. I would lay money on them having moved from the city or and estate. Pubs are a dynamic. Anyone who has see the way that the trade has been pushed in the last 20 years will know that ‘the Boozer’ is almost dead and gone. Food and Entertainment are seen by many as the salvation of the business and tend to mean that the ‘quite little watering hole’ can quite often become a bit of a noise box on a summer evening. Just odd, people move to little villages to have the 'village life'.
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deltashad
2,724 posts
66 months
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If you can't beat em join em.
Otherwise maybe you should go into the pub and have a chat with the landlord.
The last thing he'll want is to cause a nuisance.
Find out when his next jam night is happening, then if you think its too loud call the noise police.
I'm sure if you put forward your concerns in a nice way he'll keep a cap on the volume.
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