How to unSORN ?

[saaby93]

Following on from this thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
showing how to SORN your car when the insurance runs out but hold onto your tax disc for next time

What do you do when you want to unSORN it?
Previously you'd want to retax so youd apply for new tax
If youve kept the tax, you take out short term insurance, is there an online unSORNing site?
Or is there an unSORNing form at the PO?

[saaby93]

B'stard Child said:

Now why didn't we keep this in one thread

Or start a new thread with the last page of the other thread?

[saaby93]

Meoricin said:

I thought that your tax disc became invalid when you SORN? So you can't re-use it, you have to send it in for a refund, and then re-tax to un-SORN.

If your tax runs out you have to SORN (or renew) but you can keep it insured
If your insurance runs out you have to SORN (or renew) but you can keep it taxed
If it's SORNed it can still be insured or taxed or both
To use it on the road legally it should be unSORNed
Where's the online form?

[saaby93]

Bacon Is Proof said:

hombrepaulo said:

tax it?

/end thread.

From previous thread it's still taxed

[saaby93]

ewenm said:

I thought SORN implied tax ends.

no- if your tax ends you need to SORN

ewenm said:

So, if your insurance runs out and you decide to SORN (rather than renew) you should get a refund of the tax disc (by sending it back to DVLA).

only if you want to untax it

ewenm said:

To unSORN you then have to re-tax it.

not if you already have tax

ewenm said:

If you declare it SORN midway through the tax period and keep hold of the tax disc, I don't think there is any way of declaring it unSORNed (as that's not how the DVLA process works).

It's a DVLA problem?

[saaby93]

ewenm said:

Are you assuming that when you SORN it doesn't automatically untax the car or do you have that in writing somewhere?

What makes you think a SORNed car is still taxed?

Doh we already covered this in the other thread

saaby93 said:

If you look at the legislation (section 4) there's no such restriction you can SORN from today or anytime
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2742/conte...
(although up until now for most people that would be at the beginning/end of month when tax runs out - unless they want to purchase a SORNed car half way through a month)

[saaby93]

B'stard Child said:

SORN declaration is just that - "declaration that car has been taken off the road"

ok so youve done that. Your car is still taxed
You phone up for temporary insurance
It wont appear on askmid for up to 14 days
The docs wont appear in the post for a few days
They wont email you anything but 'you are insured sir'
You have insurance and tax
How do you unSORN?

[saaby93]

Noger said:

As previously discussed on here at length, you cannot SORN online unless the VED has run out, or is about to run out.

i.e. You can't buy 12 months tax today, and SORN it in a few weeks. It won't let you.

The other thread (and the legislation) shows you can
What's not clear is how to unSORN when you still have the disc and take out insurance ready to unSORN

[saaby93]

B'stard Child said:

Where's Red Devil when you need him He's the PH'r that showed me where all the legislation could be found

These statutory instruments have loads of ammendments over time!!!

Ive posted it above
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2742/conte...
look at the 4th bit at the end

[saaby93]

Richard C said:

........as there is no offence of driving, while under a SORN declaration, a car that is otherwise legally compliant....

a mate received a similar note from DVLA along the lines there may be issues with driving a vehicle while registered as SORN (you may be stopped) but as long as it has tax and insurance it's fine.

Whenever you retax it cancels the SORN so all you have to do is redeclare SORN before insurance lapses, but keep the tax for next time you want to insure and use the car
I think we've answered the thread

Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 22 June 15:19

[saaby93]

B'stard Child said:

Wheres the hand clapping smilie..........
Ahh there it is
And have one of these too and

and some of these for you too

[saaby93]

mattmurdock said:

None of them support the view that you can SORN a licensed vehicle.

Where does it say that you cant?

Apart from someone above showing that you can, wouldnt you have to SORN it while taxed in order to apply for a tax cancellation if you needed one?
Or do you think you're supposed to cancel the tax before SORN?

Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 22 June 15:57

[saaby93]

Durzel said:

I know it's not strictly legitimate

unless mattmrdock finds otherwise it's strictly legal
see here too
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[saaby93]

mattmurdock said:

The legislation gives 4 valid reasons that require SORN. The main point is SORN itself drives nothing, SORN is a requirement driven by other actions:

1. Surrendering the tax disc on a licensed vehicle
2. Expiry of a tax disc on a licensed vehicle
3. Reaching the end of a 12 month SORN period on an unlicensed vehicle
4. Change of keeper of an unlicensed vehicle

None of them suggest that you can choose to SORN without one of the above triggers.

Those 4 tax reasons when you must have a SORN
Unless you can find otherwise it doesn't say you can't declare SORN due to, say, your insurance having expired?

[saaby93]

B'stard Child said:

Introduction of CI to SORN process - well that was a well thought out decision as one would expect from DVLA and as a result we have some challenges to the system....

From previous threads it wasnt DVLA - they're still playing catchup. Wasnt it insurance industry led by a Greenaway report that appeared to say that all 1.4 million uninsured vehicles were being used on the road?

[saaby93]

B'stard Child said:

Oh yes - I was aware of that but DVLA must have said

"ooh cool - you can use our SORN process - we'll manage the penalties - since those pesky motoring forums have got so clued up on the whole SORN penalty thing we are seeing huge reductions in revenue - we could do with another penalty revenue stream to offset the admin/running costs of the whole SORN system"

I may or may not have got all that completely wrong - but I doubt it

Again it doesnt look that way
Whoever wrote the rules said that rather than send out a FPN as soon as you detect an uninsured vehicle without SORN, first write to them and ask them to either SORN or insure

[saaby93]

mattmurdock said:

The relevant legislation for CIE was introduced in the following SI:
Motor Vehicles (Insurance Requirements) Regulations 2011

They in turn amend/enforce section 144A-D of the Road Traffic Act 1988, with section 144B indicating the exceptions to the law.

Those exceptions in turn refer (eventually) to the legislation Saaby and yourself have linked, in particular Schedule 4, section 5(c) which states:

That's also the part which tells you how to declare SORN?
In otherwords the CIE says you must declare SORN if your insurance runs out
the tax stuff says you must declare SORN if your tax runs out
but neither says you must cancel your insurance or tax upon declaring SORN

[saaby93]

We could do with some BiB input to say whether a vehicle with SORN marker would be pulled even though it's legal with tax and insurance.
It's a pity there's no way of cancelling a SORN if you keep your tax going.

[saaby93]

Vipers said:

For god's sake, someone ask DVLA all these questions and post the answers, simplistic no!

It's been done but remember DVLA are learning too

[saaby93]

Noger said:

The regulations go to great lengths to talk about informing the secretary of state in the "prescribed form". Exemptions to 144A for SORN require "...and in such manner as may be prescribed."

My view would be that using V890 when you already have VED, or not returning the disk with V14 would not be in the prescribed form. Similarly, if you did not sign and date the form. You have not declared SORN for the purposes of the RTA.

Does this help?
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/2742/sched...

legislation said:

The Manner in which declaration is to be made and particulars furnished
2.—(1) For the purposes of this Schedule the required declaration may be made and the required particulars furnished in such way as the Secretary of State may accept including—

(a)in writing on a form specified by the Secretary of State;
(b)orally by telephone to a person authorised by the Secretary of State; or
(c)by electronic means in a form specified by the Secretary of State.