How legal is this sign?
Discussion
So does this sign hold any legal standing?
If so what would the penalty be?
This sign is on several posts along a footpath alongside three playing fields. No other signs or information. Fields can be approached from several places without passing or seeing one of these signs.
So you get caught with a dog off its lead, what legally can they do?
Edited by Hoonabator on Thursday 3rd May 20:20
Nothing to do with farmland fella. (reply to "shot dog" remark)
So you can walk onto this undefined area without seeing a sign and the council can legally still fine you? Even though there nothing that defines the area covered by the signs or that a fine will be inncured if the sign is ignored.
(It's corrected.... Sorry)
So you can walk onto this undefined area without seeing a sign and the council can legally still fine you? Even though there nothing that defines the area covered by the signs or that a fine will be inncured if the sign is ignored.
(It's corrected.... Sorry)
Edited by Hoonabator on Thursday 3rd May 20:22
Edited by Hoonabator on Thursday 3rd May 20:28
Have people totally missed the "Playing fields" part of my first post.
This has nothing to do with worrying livestock and the rights and wrongs of shotgun ownership.
I posted in the "Law" section to try and get an factual answer.
To clarify......
1. The sign is no where near sheep, goats, horses, cows, donkeys. Yes maybe my uncontrollable dogs might spot the sheep on the hillside 2 miles away and head straight there a maul them but I'm sure they'll come across a person with treats before canage occurs.
2. The signs are on posts along side a pathed public footpath that runs along the edge of 3 "playing fields"
3. You can walk onto these playing fields from 3 places and not encounter the signs.
4. Should there be information stating the area covered, this path runs for 2 miles and apparently once away from the playing fields you can let your dogs off again.
5. Do the signs need to display the byelaw they are upholding along with the fact a fine could be incurred?
6. Also it's nothing to do with dog mess there is a separate bye law stated on another sign covering this.
Basically what I would like to know is can an on the spot fine be issued on the basis of these signs.
This has nothing to do with worrying livestock and the rights and wrongs of shotgun ownership.
I posted in the "Law" section to try and get an factual answer.
To clarify......
1. The sign is no where near sheep, goats, horses, cows, donkeys. Yes maybe my uncontrollable dogs might spot the sheep on the hillside 2 miles away and head straight there a maul them but I'm sure they'll come across a person with treats before canage occurs.
2. The signs are on posts along side a pathed public footpath that runs along the edge of 3 "playing fields"
3. You can walk onto these playing fields from 3 places and not encounter the signs.
4. Should there be information stating the area covered, this path runs for 2 miles and apparently once away from the playing fields you can let your dogs off again.
5. Do the signs need to display the byelaw they are upholding along with the fact a fine could be incurred?
6. Also it's nothing to do with dog mess there is a separate bye law stated on another sign covering this.
Basically what I would like to know is can an on the spot fine be issued on the basis of these signs.
Well 5 years ago I would have got a sensible answer to this very simple question.
Bring back the good old days of Pistonheads.
As by now the idiot members will have stopped reading this post I'll continue to say that this is the reason PH is now s
t. Back in the day it was frequented by petrolheads with an education you could call on when needed, not fooking morons.
Anyway thanks for all the constructive input.
Next time I'll post on mumsnet.
Bring back the good old days of Pistonheads.
As by now the idiot members will have stopped reading this post I'll continue to say that this is the reason PH is now s
t. Back in the day it was frequented by petrolheads with an education you could call on when needed, not fooking morons. Anyway thanks for all the constructive input.
Next time I'll post on mumsnet.
I've pointed out that we're talking playing fields, mentioned that the nearest farmland is a couple of miles away. Pointed out that it's not a dog mess issue. Tried to explain that you can approach the area from several
places without encountering a sign. Pointed out that there is no obvious indication of the exact area covered. What im trying to estabish is whether a fine can be issued taking into account all of this. Read the thread surely you don't actually need a grid reference!!
places without encountering a sign. Pointed out that there is no obvious indication of the exact area covered. What im trying to estabish is whether a fine can be issued taking into account all of this. Read the thread surely you don't actually need a grid reference!!
I'm sorry guys but if you read the first post then it's clear what I'm asking.
You don't need to know the exact location. I know there is a bye law I effect for this area. But surely to be enforceable the exact area covered should be clearly indicated without having to go home and check on the internet.
As I've said several times.....
The signs are along one edge of 3 playing fields
These fields can be approached from the other 3 sides without ever seeing a sign.
There is no indication that breaching the notice will result in a fine.
And just to make it clear again, nothing to do with dog messing, livestock harassment or gun laws.
ETA. Maybe the title is unclear. Should read How enforceable is this sign? Sorry if this is where the confussion has arisen.
Thanks.
You don't need to know the exact location. I know there is a bye law I effect for this area. But surely to be enforceable the exact area covered should be clearly indicated without having to go home and check on the internet.
As I've said several times.....
The signs are along one edge of 3 playing fields
These fields can be approached from the other 3 sides without ever seeing a sign.
There is no indication that breaching the notice will result in a fine.
And just to make it clear again, nothing to do with dog messing, livestock harassment or gun laws.
ETA. Maybe the title is unclear. Should read How enforceable is this sign? Sorry if this is where the confussion has arisen.
Thanks.
Edited by Hoonabator on Tuesday 8th May 07:41
Sorry but the precise location of the sign really doesn't matter.
I've stated that yes there is a bylaw in force in the area.
Surely it cant be right that you have to look up on the Internet or go to the council offices to see the exact area covered. Surely it should be nice and clearly defined either by signage or a map on site. This is one small area on a 2 mile path, as I already stated you can walk straight into the Bylaw area without passing a sign. Surely that cannot be right.
The comparison to speed limits is exactly right. I don't believe there is a road in the UK that doesn't have a speed limit. You will pass a sign that states the limit. The last sign you pass is the speed limit you must adhere to until you pass the next. You can't be issue a speeding ticket unless the speed limit is cleared indicated. Imagine being stopped on a national speed limit road and being issued with an SP 30 because one section was actually a 50 limit but there wasn't a sign?
This is what is happening here.
It's not about the rights and wrongs of walking dogs on or off leads on playing fields.
I do know of a couple of people who are contesting their FP's so as nobody on here seems to be able to help I'll call time on this matter b
I've stated that yes there is a bylaw in force in the area.
Surely it cant be right that you have to look up on the Internet or go to the council offices to see the exact area covered. Surely it should be nice and clearly defined either by signage or a map on site. This is one small area on a 2 mile path, as I already stated you can walk straight into the Bylaw area without passing a sign. Surely that cannot be right.
The comparison to speed limits is exactly right. I don't believe there is a road in the UK that doesn't have a speed limit. You will pass a sign that states the limit. The last sign you pass is the speed limit you must adhere to until you pass the next. You can't be issue a speeding ticket unless the speed limit is cleared indicated. Imagine being stopped on a national speed limit road and being issued with an SP 30 because one section was actually a 50 limit but there wasn't a sign?
This is what is happening here.
It's not about the rights and wrongs of walking dogs on or off leads on playing fields.
I do know of a couple of people who are contesting their FP's so as nobody on here seems to be able to help I'll call time on this matter b
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