Plebgate - An interesting new twist

[ClaphamGT3]

In today's press

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9749367/P...

It will be interesting to see what is behind this.

[ClaphamGT3]

There is very little information on this. It would be wiser to observe than to pontificate

[ClaphamGT3]

As per usual, the "Police can do no wrong, the Govt can do no right" brigade are bestriding their hobby-horses.

What this makes clear is that no one has an informed view here; we'll just need to see how it plays out.

[ClaphamGT3]

If this is as flagrant a breach of Code G as some are making out, why did the police arrest him, the police detain him and the police question him?

Why didn't they just say that they didn't think that there were grounds for arrest?

[ClaphamGT3]

So what XCP, Derek et al are, in effect, saying is that the police service is top to bottom inept and that the command structure is broken.

Worrying.

[ClaphamGT3]

XCP said:

I expect the lady plucked out of the river Avon thinks the police are on her side.

My house was burgled the other day. From what I can see, the Burglary Squad are dealing with it in a very professional manner. I certainly would not associate their activities with the camera van that parks at the end of my road. Chalk and cheese.

I think there is a danger that everyone in the police is being tarred with the same brush, which is plain daft.

It is plain daft of the police to allow it to happen.

We are getting close to the reality that it won't matter what the majority of professional, well-intentioned police officers do; public perception will - understandably - condemn the entire institution. When that happens, it will be very easy to impose upon them the very changes that the police have - rather ham-fistedly - tried to avoid.

[ClaphamGT3]

Red 4 said:

Chim said:

Red 4 said:

Chim said:

Mainly due to him having twice directed insults in my direction, responded at these by laughing. Unfortunately though his arrogance got to me in the end. Shamed

You reap what you sow.

Yes, your colleagues are currently finding this out the hard way.

Touche.

And like I said if they have fabricated evidence I have zero sympathy.

You just chose to ignore what I was saying and have a pop instead.

Shall we call a truce ?

I think this is a great idea. Given that 'the children' have gone to bed, why dont we adults have a grown up debate? Some of us will have one view; others another, but lets share points of view in the adult and constructive way that seems to be breaking out all over this thread?

[ClaphamGT3]

I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing whole-heartedly with Yvette Cooper - we need a full, independent (ideally Judge-led) inquiry into this.

[ClaphamGT3]

Gene Vincent said:

Mill Wheel said:

Remember that Mitchell was accused of calling the police PLEBS in the same week that two female officers were killed with a grenade, and buried with huge outpouring of public support, which raised the whole issue higher than it might otherwise have been - and the federation seem to have tried to take advantage of this.

I'd hazard a guess that with the recent revelations, that support is waning somewhat, because of the actions of just a few people.

I was subject to terrible accusations for making exactly that point at the time... be careful.

Although PC Blue is uncharacteristically quiet at the moment.....

[ClaphamGT3]

Its interesting to see that certain factions who were vocal that "CMD should just sack him" back in Sept/Oct are now criticising Cameron for letting him go....

It strikes me that there's a lot yet to play out in this one and certainly the back-pedalling by the head of the PF on the news last night was of a comprehensiveness that suggests he knows they won't come out of this well.

I still think that an independent inquiry into this would be worthwhile, as would a Royal Commission on the broader issue of the relationship between the police and Govt ( not the current one specifically - Govt in its wider sense)

[ClaphamGT3]

It isn't looking good for the Police this week. Steve Williams can't distance himself from Plebgate fast enough, Orde put in a breathtakingly lamentable performance on the Today Programme this morning, sounding like a reactionary, obfuscating oaf and Hogan-Howe has been summonsed to a parliamentary enquiry in the new year. I suspect he'll be out of a job by Feb as his behaviour is demonstrating that the culture of "looking after their own" goes right to the very top.

[ClaphamGT3]

Elroy Blue said:

My previous post on this subject covers the Officer's e-mail and my views on it.

If you think we're all corrupt, then there's nothing I can do to change that. I'm sure Mitchell is a lovely fellow and never did or said anything on that night.

I have no wish to add to the ever decreasing circles of this thread , I said my piece many, many pages ago and that view hasn't changed.

Your posts are truly remarkable - you really are becoming a parody of yourself.

[ClaphamGT3]

Andy has hit the nail just about bang on the head.

The real shame here is that, through this sort of attitude the police are disqualifying themselves from any meaningful role in shaping the changes that are likely to be coming their way; change will simply be done to them because neither the public nor the Govt have any trust in the integrity of the police as an institution. That will be to the detriment of everyone because I am sure that the contribution of right thinking and honest police personnel would make for a better outcome in the end.

[ClaphamGT3]

I think 10PS makes a good point. The issue here is not who said what to whom; it is the police destabilising the democratically elected Govt of the day that is now the issue. If they are not very, very careful the PF and the likes of EB/Red 4 will turn this into a "police vs democracy" issue.

[ClaphamGT3]

I would tend to agree with you but for the possibility that more than one police officer deliberately set out to dis-credit a member of the democratically elected Govt. This makes the issue one of the utmost seriousness and one where, if it has to come to a confrontation, the Govt absolutely has to be seen to win.

[ClaphamGT3]

XCP said:

What has this affair got to do with 'freedom of speech'?

I don't think anyone's mentioned freedom of speech. The issue here is about whether it is acceptable for police officers to deliberately destabilise a member of the democratically elected Govt and, ergo, the Govt itself.

I'll take a flyer and say that most of the population are appalled by it and that, proven or not, the reputation of the police will be tarnished in the eyes of the public for years.

[ClaphamGT3]

don4l said:

The Police have the freedom to say whatever they like - even if it isn't true.

I find it a bit odd that some people think that something that an MP said, (or more factually, did not say,) is as important as the fact that the Police seem quite happy to fabricate evidence.

It also looks like most police don't have a problem with the fabricated/shared evidence. The general public, BY WHOM THE POLICE ARE PAID AND WHOM THEY SERVE don't like this.

Don
--

EFA

[ClaphamGT3]

I find the attitude of a number of posters, who were quick enough to be judge, jury and executioner when the story first broke but who are now desperately trying to worm their way out of saying "As a profession the police appear to have behaved appallingly; if proven those involved deserve only unambiguous condemnation and Mr Mitchell deserves an unreserved public apology whilst the police must commit to reform to prevent this sort of thing ever happening again"

[ClaphamGT3]

Scuffers said:

I see Bernard Hogan-Howe still got his knighthood....

I would have thought that should have been paused at the very least....

I tend to agree

[ClaphamGT3]

La Liga said:

REALIST123 said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

Scuffers said:

I see Bernard Hogan-Howe still got his knighthood....

I would have thought that should have been paused at the very least....

I tend to agree

I definitely agree. Apparently stopping it was discussed last week but it was too late.

Farcical.

Why, because one or two of his 45,000 police / PCSOs has done something wrong? You can bet police officers under his command in all his years have done things much serious than this, but without the public interest. The man's dedicated his life to policing and, it may come as a surprise to the obsessive Met-centric press, worked his arse off prior to becoming commissioner in his previous roles.

The critique aimed (justly, in some cases) to the police on this thread is that they are taking the perspective they want to see despite evidence to the contrary. Yet we accept people dismiss someone's Knighthood because of one incident in a snapshot of a career? Equally as poor thinking, no?

Let me introduce you to the concept of "the buck stops here"