Just been scammed on Gumtree - how best to proceed?

[mellowman]

Just been defrauded on Gumtree, and am annoyed that I didn't see the warning signs...

Anyway, I'm after advice on reporting it and maybe even eventually getting justice.

I found a Nexus 7 for sale locally on Gumtree, and because we live in a small close-knit community (virtually crime-free), I didn't twig when the seller spun me a yarn about having to suddenly go to Shetland to help his sick mother. Anyway, he said he could contact me on his return if it was still for sale, or perhaps he could post it after payment was received if I wanted it sooner. I foolishly agreed to use online banking to pay him, and to receive it within a couple of days.

When I searched for his telephone number again on Gumtree, he had lots of other adverts for small items like Nike trainers, a portable Nintendo etc, but with a Southampton location, not the local one near to me hundreds of miles away...Curious, I sent him an enquiry through Gumtree and he said he was near Portsmouth (nowhere near Shetland).

Shortly afterwards I received an email from Gumtree saying he had been reported for fraud by another user and to cancel any dealings - too late by now of course.

He said he'd sent the Nexus Special Delivery on Monday, but no sign of it today, and the tracking number is fake.

I would like to report it with all details and correspondence, in the hope he can be caught, but I don't think our local police would ever investigate it, and the national anti fraud website just records the fraud and doesn't help solve the crime apparently.

Any advice appreciated!

[mellowman]

SteveScooby said:

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/

Report it here.

That's the site I mentioned that doesn't actually try and solve the crime for you - I believe they just collate the information?

[mellowman]

Ok, I have reported it to the Action Fraud website, so at least I have a crime reference number.

As I paid via online banking, and have the fraudster's account details, do I just ring up his bank and try to get them to initiate an investigation? The sort code refers to a Nationwide Flex account I believe.

He's still advertising and responding on Gumtree, with the latest being an iPad - not priced stupidly low, and with believable pictures and description. His location has changed from Southampton/Portsmouth to the Western isles!

If anyone has been in a similar position trying to retrieve money from a fraudulent online banking transfer do post.

[mellowman]

Jon999 said:

Do all you can to find out where he lives or info about him. I had a similar thing on eBay. A quick phone call to his mobile (obtained the number from a neighbour after finding out his address then a few different searches on 192/directory enquiries) got the money refunded in seconds. The horror in his voice after he worked out who was calling him was fantastic.

Well, his mobile number just goes to voicemail, so I guess he's screening everything.

I'm going to try and ring his bank today, to see what they say about it, but presumably they will spout data protection, so I might have to get my bank to investigate on my behalf?

I once did some searching for a non-payer on eBay and was spooked out. He had a very unusual user id that also had a related website (about his love of pies, I kid you not...). I obtained the domain WHOIS details and discovered he lived just yards from where I grew up. He ignored eBay communications, but a sharply-worded email to his domain email address brought up a very sheepish apology.

[mellowman]

Benrad said:

Pretty difficult to set up a fake bank account. However the transfer itself wasn't fraudulent so I doubt they'd be able to reverse it? You gave the bank and instruction and they did what you asked. Could be wrong though, don't ask don't get, have a chat at the bank

Nail on head, I authorised the transfer of funds so that isn't itself fraudulent, only the non-delivery of goods to me.

I'm happy to approach directly, but nobody wants to give me information - hence why so many online scams succeed as they fail at the first hurdle of getting to the fraudster.

I have a trail of correspondence, an email address, mobile no., account details and just want some banking or law enforcement agency to do something about it, or at least stop him from defrauding others. He should be blacklisted, or at least have his bank account suspended. He is still selling stuff on Gumtree and others may be affected too.

[mellowman]

tigger1 said:

Throw the email address into google - does it link to a facebook account?

It might be worth (purely for badness) trying to contact NatWest and suggesting that the account is being used for illegal activities - see what they will do. Possibly nothing for you - but they might consider closing it.

There's lots of people here who *might* be able to throw a mobile number into a database and tell you what county it is registered in.

I'm happy to provide details off-forum if anyone wants to assist...

Interesting development. I replied to another Gumtree ad containing his mobile number, for an iPad, and he's said collection is preferable and given me an address - in the Western isles! I said I was nearby in Ullapool and could catch the ferry over. I wonder how he'll get out of that one? It's definitely the same guy as his mannerisms and formatting are identical.

I don't suppose we have any Stornaway members that might be able to shed some light on this? Feel free to contact me off-forum.

[mellowman]

Purity14 said:

I like these types of games..

Have messaged you with the details.

I think he knows the game's up and must be ready to run, because he's just sent me this charming reply to my last email stating the tracking number is a fake:

"Scammer.co.uk/trackmyparcel is what I did it with cheers"

Got to get the little $h!* now...

[mellowman]

cptsideways said:

can you not trace a bank account branch via the sort code? then contact the branch. I'm pretty sure any bank manager would take fraud seriously.

Nationwide Flex account sort codes don't reveal the branch, just the registered office details. I tried to get my bank, LloydsTSB, to initiate an investigation, but because I willingly authorised the transfer there's nothing they can do apparently...and they will only reveal account details if asked by the police etc.

[mellowman]

mjb1 said:

Goodluck, it probably won't be cost effective to try and get your money back, but if it's a matter of principle (and I would do the same)...

Well, I just posed as a new punter for the iPad, and believe I spoke to the scammer. He sounded a right chav. He did "confirm" his location as Stornaway, but said he would text me back his address so I didn't get it wrong. No reply yet, but will perhaps remind him if more than an hour elapses. He didn't sound a local that's for sure.

I have been trying name and address combination on 192.com to see whether there's some truth in the details - perhaps he's used a relative's or friend's account.

I have details of a bank account used for fraudulent purposes, so I'm hoping that I can interest the police (somewhere) in digging further and leading me to his real identity - I'm quite prepared to do the legwork from there.

[mellowman]

Save Ferris said:

He doesn't sound very Scottish on the phone

Ah, so you gave him a call? Did he give you an address or any further info? Please feel free to PM if you want...

[mellowman]

Purity14 said:

Ive replied to your email dude, so give it a read and let me know if you have HIS email address

Definitely a southern accent. Have emailed you his email address, and many thanks for your digging so far...

Edited by mellowman on Thursday 28th February 17:15

[mellowman]

Purity14 said:

Eldest Child's Nickname is his security question 1/2.
This could give us an age of the person, or some more info to obtain..


(don't enter any guesses as he will be onto you!)


God this is a hard one!

Don't worry, didn't try any guesses, although his earlier ads suggested he had an older daughter just gone to college, and he said his wife was called Sandra.

[mellowman]

No reply from me asking for his address to view/buy iPad tonight, but I have heard back from another enquiry I sent to him under another account. He's asking whether I've got his bank details, which he claims to have sent.

I think he'll now request that we exchange real email addresses as somehow his details have been lost via Gumtree's messaging system. I wonder whether it'll be the same account I paid into?

At least he's still in communication and reading emails.

I would love to involve the police but apart from reporting the fraud, I can't think of any force that would actually investigate. I cannot imagine our local rural plod investigating this low-level fraud, but perhaps I should give them a try?

[mellowman]

GC8 said:

Your first contact has to be with your local police. Fraud is fraud and there are many crimes investigated and dealt with where the value of the loss is far less.

Crime is crime.

Thanks, will give them a try and report back.

I have heard back from the scammer regarding an earlier enquiry. He's given me a sort code and account for YORKSHIRE BUILDING SOCIETY T/A NORWICH AND PETERBOROUGH.

Hmm, so he's using multiple accounts to scam money...

[mellowman]

The Spruce goose said:

quick post to link advert and delete it? so i can have a look.

i had my ebay account hacked and he scammed 10 people and i did my own investigation..so a bit handy but not an expert.

Have PM'd you the Gumtree link...

He's just got back to me via another enquiry, asking whether I've got his account name (I have the other details). of course, I don't, so he'll presumably ask to go outside Gumtree comms...

[mellowman]

r44flyer said:

What would be easier than obtaining multiple fake accounts for the purposes of fraud would be to get you to send money to others expecting payment for goods which he will then receive. Seller gets his cash and posts scammer the goods. You're none the wiser.

If you've received email from him it will contain an IP. Geobytes will at least give you a ballpark location.

Have looked at headers (yahoo.co.uk) but am a bit confused as to which bit might be his IP address or ISP IP mail service address - can I PM you the headers or can you give me further clues?

[mellowman]

The Spruce goose said:

o.k 2 mobile numbers found on a similar worded advert in norfolk, but looks like he copy's adverts and post up again with his mobilenumber ending in 54..?

`1 ends in 54
2 ends in 313 both ben

2 adverts(2 numbers) for a cash on collection (bike) item in thetford...erm

Edited by The Spruce goose on Thursday 28th February 23:40

Not come across these yet, but he's just emailed from a different Yahoo address now, so perhaps he's discarded the previous email address. He still hasn't given me the full account details, so the ping pong emails continue...

[mellowman]

The Spruce goose said:

I've PM'd the links.

just need a last name.

Ta for the PM, have PM'd you back as he's just spun a tale about it being his son's iPad, who happens to have the same name as the ads you mention...

[mellowman]

Update...

Got another bank account he wants me to pay a deposit into, completely different name (says it's his son's) and we have arranged to meet at an address in Stornaway this afternoon. I don't live anywhere near Stornaway so don't intend to be there, but I don't think he does either(!) so no doubt he'll come up with an excuse to cancel.

There's some info to suggest he may reside or have relations/associates in Basingstoke.

He's now using a different yahoo.co.uk address from the one he originally used to scam me with. I'm not totally familiar with the geolocation of IPs but some of the headers for his email are below, if anyone's got any info:

Received: from [77.238.189.49] by nm17.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2013 02:12:33 -0000
Received: from [212.82.98.114] by tm2.bullet.mail.ird.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2013 02:12:33 -0000
Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1051.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Mar 2013 02:12:33 -0000
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3
X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: [e-mail]
Received: from [109.144.195.201] by web171601.mail.ir2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 01 Mar 2013 02:12:33 GMT
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>

[mellowman]

GC8 said:

I suspect that this poster is on the money. Its a variation on the old firearms certificate scam used by crims to illegally obtain firearms before the late eighties change.

I further suspect that he is using a far Northern location to make doorstep comeback as unlikely as possible, as he hooks his victims by offering local collection, ensuring that they are local and far too far away to travel for the sums involved.

Just got another charming email from him after I said I had reported the fraud:

"Do it mate coz ur not getting no money back u mug its your own fault it says meet in person on gumtree ur now a victim who lost out on money how do you feel hahaha MUG"

He also backed out of the previously arranged meeting on Stornaway, and says I was a time waster (no deposit to online account showing) and he'll sell it to his son's friend.

To be continued...