Staff stealing takings ... 2 years @ £100 per day
Discussion
My local shop owner is, to say the least upset.
She found out last week that the member of staff who she employed and worked with pretty much every day has been stealing from her. Her initial estimates are that the amount is somewhere around £100 per day and has been this much for the last two years..
Having discovered this last Monday and confronted the person last Wednesday, after an initial denial, she admitted it. It appears it first started out as a mistake, but she seemingly she 'can't herlp her self'.
This is where it gets a little messy. Her father then approached the shop owner with a cheque for £1000 her not to go to the police ans spare her daughter from what ever follows next. The shop owner is now in possession of the cheque and her accountants are now in the process of going through all sorts in an effort to determine just how much she really did take (how they are going to do this is something I am not sure of, but seemingly they are able to get a reasonable estimate of how much has been stolen).
So, assuming the shop owner does go to the police, what is likely to be the outcome for the shop owner. Apparently, the young woman is also a dancer who teaches to children in her part time. Presumably a conviction will put pay to that. If the young woman is convicted (assuming this is a first offence), is she likely to get a custodial sentence or what is likely to happen to her?
TBO i've no idea how the shop owner 'missed' the money going missing, but that apart, what is the realistic likely outcome of this?
She found out last week that the member of staff who she employed and worked with pretty much every day has been stealing from her. Her initial estimates are that the amount is somewhere around £100 per day and has been this much for the last two years..
Having discovered this last Monday and confronted the person last Wednesday, after an initial denial, she admitted it. It appears it first started out as a mistake, but she seemingly she 'can't herlp her self'.
This is where it gets a little messy. Her father then approached the shop owner with a cheque for £1000 her not to go to the police ans spare her daughter from what ever follows next. The shop owner is now in possession of the cheque and her accountants are now in the process of going through all sorts in an effort to determine just how much she really did take (how they are going to do this is something I am not sure of, but seemingly they are able to get a reasonable estimate of how much has been stolen).
So, assuming the shop owner does go to the police, what is likely to be the outcome for the shop owner. Apparently, the young woman is also a dancer who teaches to children in her part time. Presumably a conviction will put pay to that. If the young woman is convicted (assuming this is a first offence), is she likely to get a custodial sentence or what is likely to happen to her?
TBO i've no idea how the shop owner 'missed' the money going missing, but that apart, what is the realistic likely outcome of this?
10 Pence Short said:
The cheque may be seen as perverting the course of justice.
£100 a day for 2 years is more than £70000.
Yes indeed it is. As the shop owner said to me, a very substantial deposit on a house. £100 a day for 2 years is more than £70000.
When I spoke to her she was almost in pieces. I think more than anything else, what has shaken her is the huge sense of betrayal and breach of trust.
JustinP1 said:
A can't believe that in what seems to be a small business that that amount of money has gone missing and gone unnoticed.
I think it may possibly be that amount every few days, and maybe amounting to a 5 figure sum, and I also think it is east to let emotions and estimates based on those cloud thinking.
If it were me, I would suspend her, and/or get her to admit how much approximately she thinks she has stolen, and get my own estimate based on accounting figures.
£1000 is a drop in the ocean, I'd rather shop her than take it. If she gets a conviction then that's her problem.
The only other outcome which would mean that the owner was less out of pocket would be to estimate the amount missing and to get the employee to 'work it off' - obviously watching her like a hawk and with the knowledge that a penny goes missing the police would be alerted.
That said - you'd have to think through the legal implications of the above, and it does 'dig the hole deeper' but if it is a substantial amount, this may very well be the only way of even seeing it back.
Seemingly so. It bewilders me, it really does. I am sure in the fullness of time she will let me know - but by her own admission the women who took the takings said it was about that amount (give or take a bit) every day for two years. I think it may possibly be that amount every few days, and maybe amounting to a 5 figure sum, and I also think it is east to let emotions and estimates based on those cloud thinking.
If it were me, I would suspend her, and/or get her to admit how much approximately she thinks she has stolen, and get my own estimate based on accounting figures.
£1000 is a drop in the ocean, I'd rather shop her than take it. If she gets a conviction then that's her problem.
The only other outcome which would mean that the owner was less out of pocket would be to estimate the amount missing and to get the employee to 'work it off' - obviously watching her like a hawk and with the knowledge that a penny goes missing the police would be alerted.
That said - you'd have to think through the legal implications of the above, and it does 'dig the hole deeper' but if it is a substantial amount, this may very well be the only way of even seeing it back.
sleep envy said:
Amy I ask how she found out?
CCTV.Edit: I'm unfamiliar with the use of a till, but she said to me that she has in effect been pocketing the cash that hasn't been put through the till (she also mentioned something about resetting the till and the float.. but like I said I have no idea how or what is involved in doing that)
Edited by drivin_me_nuts on Monday 25th March 14:47
I'll keep the thread updated - I don;t know when I will see her next, but when I saw her yesterday I kinda think she was really in two minds about it. I think the anger of betrayal would drive her to contact the police, but part of me also thinks that she won't.
I know it's a lot of money and this might sound quite ridiculous, but I do get the feeling she won't want her to get a criminal record. Ummm. Logic says go straight to the police, emotive part of her thinks maybe not. We'll see.
I know it's a lot of money and this might sound quite ridiculous, but I do get the feeling she won't want her to get a criminal record. Ummm. Logic says go straight to the police, emotive part of her thinks maybe not. We'll see.
Well, I just went and had a chat with the other lady who co-owns the shop..
Seems that she has been taking money from the shop for the last two years and every shift she has worked shows till readings of half the other staff's nights. The accountant estimates that the amount stolen is around, but not less than the 50k mark.
Seemingly the lass' favourite part time is coke as demonstrated by the friendface pages.
She has sent several texts to the shop owner admitting all that she has done.
It all came about simply because the stock items did not match the amounts going through the till and every day she would Z the till and ring in differing amounts.
The shop owners had to take a recent loan to keep the shop going.
I shall say no more for now regarding the facts, but crikey, what a mess.
Seems that she has been taking money from the shop for the last two years and every shift she has worked shows till readings of half the other staff's nights. The accountant estimates that the amount stolen is around, but not less than the 50k mark.
Seemingly the lass' favourite part time is coke as demonstrated by the friendface pages.
She has sent several texts to the shop owner admitting all that she has done.
It all came about simply because the stock items did not match the amounts going through the till and every day she would Z the till and ring in differing amounts.
The shop owners had to take a recent loan to keep the shop going.
I shall say no more for now regarding the facts, but crikey, what a mess.
Thanks for the replies. When I next see her, I shall indeed let her know your thoughts and the fact that she is more than likely going to get a custodial sentence.
As Mr Soovy said, what a scumbag.
Apparently, the answer to the question 'why did you take the money?'
was...
ready for it ...
'because I could.'
As Mr Soovy said, what a scumbag.
Apparently, the answer to the question 'why did you take the money?'
was...
ready for it ...
'because I could.'
TheBear said:
I'd be wary of telling her that she would get a custodial. The lady seems to be in two minds about involving the police so the thought of prison for her might deter her.
What you need to be clear to her about, repeatedly, is how this girl deceived her trust and never admitted to it until the CCTV was reviewed and she had no get out. She is only sorry that she was caught, NOT that she stole from her. She would still be stealing from her now if she could get away with it. That is who she is, not the front she is now portraying.
The offer of 1000 is insulting to say the least if the reported amount is accurate. Present the cheque and texts as evidence for the police to use in interview.
Do not let her feel sorry for this girl as it could dissuade her.
If she has a drug habit and did it to fund an addiction then that is for her Lawyer to argue in mitigation in court not for the lady to take into account when deciding whether to involve the police. She is an Adult and made her decision.
I absolutely agree with everything you said. What you need to be clear to her about, repeatedly, is how this girl deceived her trust and never admitted to it until the CCTV was reviewed and she had no get out. She is only sorry that she was caught, NOT that she stole from her. She would still be stealing from her now if she could get away with it. That is who she is, not the front she is now portraying.
The offer of 1000 is insulting to say the least if the reported amount is accurate. Present the cheque and texts as evidence for the police to use in interview.
Do not let her feel sorry for this girl as it could dissuade her.
If she has a drug habit and did it to fund an addiction then that is for her Lawyer to argue in mitigation in court not for the lady to take into account when deciding whether to involve the police. She is an Adult and made her decision.
If she was working tonight, then no doubt the till would be down tomorrow. When I next see her, I shall ask what she has decided to do. I think she will go ahead and tell the police. In the balance of probability, her sense of anger (very palpable and raw) will far outweigh any sense of 'compassion'* (*choose what ever word you feel appropriate) she might have had for her.
Personally, I find the fact that her father would offer 1000 not to go to the police rather insulting.
jas xjr said:
drivin_me_nuts said:
Small convenience store. I reckon it takes about 500 a day or there abouts.
that would hardly be earning anything without the theftLeithen said:
... You never trust another employee ever again.
... and this is the bit I saw in her face when we spoke yesterday. Mixed with the anger was a very real and visible sense of betrayal. Trust, once gone, can never be recovered. It's sad in another way as how can she ever trust anyone else again. In some ways, it's the harshest part of this whole sorry mess as it surely changes the way she looks at her other staff. mjb1 said:
Needs to be reported. You'll probably never get much it back if she's blown it all on white powder, but at least she'll get a record and future employers should get a bit of a warning.
I too am amazed that the owner didn't pick up on things sooner, can't have been running a very tight ship finance wise (which almost gives the culprit a credible defence that the owner was doing some of the skimming and trying to frame the employee for all of it). The change in gross profit should have highlighted the problem (along with a host of other potentials - wastage, theft of stock etc), and it's something the revenue look closely at as well.
I sell EPOS systems to independent shops, and I often tell clients that if they are hands on/working the till themselves, then yes, they can get away with a simple cash register. But as soon as you have employees on the till, the potential for loss is there. A couple of grand buys a top end computerised EPOS system, which doesn't seem too bad compared to 50k+ of theft.
I realise this might well come across as pretty naive - certainly from those with years in retail, but I think part of the reason as to why it went on as long as it did was because the two women who run the business are not the kind of people who would naturally assume that someone would steal from them - it's a small 'store' run very much along the lines of 'family'.I too am amazed that the owner didn't pick up on things sooner, can't have been running a very tight ship finance wise (which almost gives the culprit a credible defence that the owner was doing some of the skimming and trying to frame the employee for all of it). The change in gross profit should have highlighted the problem (along with a host of other potentials - wastage, theft of stock etc), and it's something the revenue look closely at as well.
blugnu said:
I have a small shop, which is very different from an organisation where you have assistant managers and so forth. My shop has me and my partner and then the students who work for us. If we want a day off as a family, we have to have the operator being able to do Z reports (end of day for the uninitiated - it prints a report saying how much you have sold, how much cash there should be, and the amount taken on cards - it then resets the totals to zero ready for the next day. A X report gives you the totals without resetting it to zero)
Our shop is open 364 days a year. If we are to have any days off as a family, we have to trust our staff to run the shop when we are not there - that includes doing the reports.
Most small shops don't have computerised tills as they are too expensive. We have procedures in place such as the staff having to make sure the till balances but there is no way of stopping them doing transactions without putting them through the till, for example. You have to trust them.
I would like to think I'd notice 100 per shift going, but I think back to the awful Saturdays we were having two years ago - so bad that it came within a whisker of closing us down - when I blamed the weather and the recession and new local competition and wonder if,actually, the staff we had whom I caught stealing time from me were also stealing sales. Unless you never have a day off, there is no way you can tell for certain.
All tills have sequentially numbered Z reports, so it is instantly obvious if an unauthorised one has been run off in between.Our shop is open 364 days a year. If we are to have any days off as a family, we have to trust our staff to run the shop when we are not there - that includes doing the reports.
Most small shops don't have computerised tills as they are too expensive. We have procedures in place such as the staff having to make sure the till balances but there is no way of stopping them doing transactions without putting them through the till, for example. You have to trust them.
I would like to think I'd notice 100 per shift going, but I think back to the awful Saturdays we were having two years ago - so bad that it came within a whisker of closing us down - when I blamed the weather and the recession and new local competition and wonder if,actually, the staff we had whom I caught stealing time from me were also stealing sales. Unless you never have a day off, there is no way you can tell for certain.
I sell EPOS systems to independent shops, and I often tell clients that if they are hands on/working the till themselves, then yes, they can get away with a simple cash register. But as soon as you have employees on the till, the potential for loss is there. A couple of grand buys a top end computerised EPOS system, which doesn't seem too bad compared to 50k+ of theft.
I really don't think it's in their nature to assume theft - and from the several conversations i've had with them, staff theft was really the last thing they ever considered.
Certainly you could call them naive, but like I said before, what comes across more in conversations with them has been their enormous sense of outrage and sense of personal violation. Lesson learned, but never the less, what a horrible way to learn and on such a scale.
oyster said:
WTF?
How can you run a small shop and not notice £500+ disappearing each WEEK for TWO years?!!!
And the gym owner in another post who lost money with the office lady taking cash to the bank. FFS, is that for real too?
Seemingly so. Lots of reasons listed above contribute to it. How can you run a small shop and not notice £500+ disappearing each WEEK for TWO years?!!!
And the gym owner in another post who lost money with the office lady taking cash to the bank. FFS, is that for real too?
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