POLICE...... False evidence
Discussion
OK guys, i have a bit of a problem, the story is as follows
On the 5th of Feb, i was down an unlight disused road, sat with my girlfriend at about 9 pm eating a KFC which i had just bought... It was raining very hard and was pitch black.
A police riot van came, must have seen my lights and came over for a closer look. I now know that there were 4 officers in the van, 2 of them specials. One got out, put on his foul weather gear and came over to me, "alright John, can i aks just what it is yopur doing down here" he says to me.
I told him that i was eating and asked him if there was a problem with that. He then TOLD me to get out the car to which i refused because of the weather, cold very wet and windy.
He then got very annoyed as i wouldnt get out so he then went on to check tread depths, washer fluid level, lights and did the usual PNC check... He again wasnt very happy with this and told me that my time will come and they will get my licence off my for a very least a short while.
I then said is that it, and i then left. Reversed back, and drove away quite pleased (smug in fact) that for the 42nd time i had been pulled, they could yet agian do nothing.
As i drove away, a coulpe of minutes later, i was stopped by FOUR more cars, 9 officers in total. Dragged out my car, they opened the door so hard it smashed the check strap and opened so far it fu**** the door skin and moved the drivers side wing forward about 8 mm.
I was cautioned for driving without due care and attention. and released
The police from the dark road said that when they let me go from the dark road, i pulled away at great speed, spinning my wheels fror approx 60 meters. Quotes in thier statements say that they new that they were spinning becouse of the loud screeching noise and the smoke... IN THE WET, I HARDLY THINK SO
All 4 officers say the samy, all statements are word for word perfect.
The History
Since june 2002 i have now been stopped in excess of 42 times in the consett area
I have 42 producers to prove this, and not so much as a parking ticket to my name.
No criminal record, though i have made 4 complaints anout harrasment to the Chief inspector about this.
my lawyer has the CCTV tape showing the second time i was stopped, the damage to the car and the number of police that pulled me over for a driving offence...
I have a lawyer, but he says this could go either way.
Can any one help or has anyone reading been in a similar situation before. Am i doomed because of the 4 officers all lying together???
I have pleaded not guilty to this and im due back in court on the 19th of this month. I know im facing a maximum of 9 points and a big fine, but if there is any advice anyone can give me it will be greatly appreciated.
Please do not say let justice take its corse, this is the police taking a serious disliking to a young lad in an exspensive flash car, im sure im not the only one out there
Thanks if you have managed to read this far
John
On the 5th of Feb, i was down an unlight disused road, sat with my girlfriend at about 9 pm eating a KFC which i had just bought... It was raining very hard and was pitch black.
A police riot van came, must have seen my lights and came over for a closer look. I now know that there were 4 officers in the van, 2 of them specials. One got out, put on his foul weather gear and came over to me, "alright John, can i aks just what it is yopur doing down here" he says to me.
I told him that i was eating and asked him if there was a problem with that. He then TOLD me to get out the car to which i refused because of the weather, cold very wet and windy.
He then got very annoyed as i wouldnt get out so he then went on to check tread depths, washer fluid level, lights and did the usual PNC check... He again wasnt very happy with this and told me that my time will come and they will get my licence off my for a very least a short while.
I then said is that it, and i then left. Reversed back, and drove away quite pleased (smug in fact) that for the 42nd time i had been pulled, they could yet agian do nothing.
As i drove away, a coulpe of minutes later, i was stopped by FOUR more cars, 9 officers in total. Dragged out my car, they opened the door so hard it smashed the check strap and opened so far it fu**** the door skin and moved the drivers side wing forward about 8 mm.
I was cautioned for driving without due care and attention. and released
The police from the dark road said that when they let me go from the dark road, i pulled away at great speed, spinning my wheels fror approx 60 meters. Quotes in thier statements say that they new that they were spinning becouse of the loud screeching noise and the smoke... IN THE WET, I HARDLY THINK SO
All 4 officers say the samy, all statements are word for word perfect.
The History
Since june 2002 i have now been stopped in excess of 42 times in the consett area
I have 42 producers to prove this, and not so much as a parking ticket to my name.
No criminal record, though i have made 4 complaints anout harrasment to the Chief inspector about this.
my lawyer has the CCTV tape showing the second time i was stopped, the damage to the car and the number of police that pulled me over for a driving offence...
I have a lawyer, but he says this could go either way.
Can any one help or has anyone reading been in a similar situation before. Am i doomed because of the 4 officers all lying together???
I have pleaded not guilty to this and im due back in court on the 19th of this month. I know im facing a maximum of 9 points and a big fine, but if there is any advice anyone can give me it will be greatly appreciated.
Please do not say let justice take its corse, this is the police taking a serious disliking to a young lad in an exspensive flash car, im sure im not the only one out there
Thanks if you have managed to read this far
John
I submitted a complaint 20 mins after it happened, they all mention it in their statements after the event, they say the wind caught the door, yet there is a bloody great big tree next to the car and the video shows not even a flinch,
Lucky for me, as i recall it was windy that night.
They now say that its using nessesary force to get me from the car.... NO CHASE, NO CRIME just a possible act which broke the ROAD TRAFFIC ACT..
Well street cop, if you you are an officer, i wouldnt expect expect anything other than that absolutly useless yet smug reply
But this is how im gonna go down if i do get done
Thanks
Jon
Lucky for me, as i recall it was windy that night.
They now say that its using nessesary force to get me from the car.... NO CHASE, NO CRIME just a possible act which broke the ROAD TRAFFIC ACT..
Well street cop, if you you are an officer, i wouldnt expect expect anything other than that absolutly useless yet smug reply
But this is how im gonna go down if i do get done
Thanks
Jon
PetrolTed said:
Have you tried the Police Complaints people Jon?
Yeah but there full of people like SC
If the right verdict comes in NOT GUILTY, then they are wide open to been taken to court with a counter claim for £1700, thats the repair cost of the door and wing, plus, then i think im going to lump the whole thing into one and go for harrasment, stress and all that crap
I have had this for 2 1/2 years now and i have just about had enough
Jon
Raify said:
Best of Luck...
Nice attitude there, officer. Hope you never need anyone's advice / sympathy. Ever.
I've re-typed this 3 times to avoid swearing, btw.
To the original post:
It seems your situation has escalated to an alarming level. Perhaps it would be advantageous to consider going to the press / higher police complaints authority?
Good luck.
Thanks,
I know somebody mentioned it earlier, i think the press
is a good option, but what do i say???
Do i tell them before in the hope that they are there on the day or after the verdict???
Jon
Just to make it clear, the video evidence is from 4 miles down the road, it was taken after the alleged offence
It only shows where i got stopped the second time and it clearly show all reg marks of the cars and the excessive level of policing at the incident
I do have my own copy of the tape, and i have made a complaint about the damage to my door, but i have to wait til after the verdict to persue
Jon
It only shows where i got stopped the second time and it clearly show all reg marks of the cars and the excessive level of policing at the incident
I do have my own copy of the tape, and i have made a complaint about the damage to my door, but i have to wait til after the verdict to persue
Jon
I didnt axplain the layout to well, sorry
The road i was sat down lead to a dead end, the tarmac simply stopped. The road is quite a wide one, and it has a T junction which leads off it, its about 20 yards long and that also leads to a dead end, well a field to be precise.
So i reversed out of the road, then pulled away down the long straight...
Thanks anyway, just goes to show that its only the select few that have the attitude like SC (wonder how many of that select few are in the force????????) and most do bother to take time out to offer advice
Thanks for eveything so far, even you
Jon
The road i was sat down lead to a dead end, the tarmac simply stopped. The road is quite a wide one, and it has a T junction which leads off it, its about 20 yards long and that also leads to a dead end, well a field to be precise.
So i reversed out of the road, then pulled away down the long straight...
Thanks anyway, just goes to show that its only the select few that have the attitude like SC (wonder how many of that select few are in the force????????) and most do bother to take time out to offer advice
Thanks for eveything so far, even you
Jon
FAO Richard C
In 2002, i was 21, on my birthday, i went out and bought a 1 year old Impreza
No silly mods
No tinted windows (looking back i should have now)
Basicaly, nothing on the car made it stand out other than the age of the driver.
I got stopped the day i brought it home, which i thought was fair enough, young lad, expensive to run, buy and insure for a lad of this age. But it never stopped there, i said a have only got 42 producers to date, that doesnt include the pulls where i eventualy started carrying my docs around with me... The car was even searched one night for suspision of a burgalry, this officer had stopped me 5 times in the last 2 month, he knew who i was he just thought he was being clever.
Any way, this carried on right until i got rid of it on. I then got a 306 RALLYE, agian, no mods, no nothing. I went un noticed for a month until some lad ran into the side of me outside the local nightclub where the police had to attend. Than guess what, the same sh** started all avoer again.
Its stopped again, as they dont know what im driving, i have an invisable white 5 door Micra and a newish FTO which is hardly ever out...
Jon
In 2002, i was 21, on my birthday, i went out and bought a 1 year old Impreza
No silly mods
No tinted windows (looking back i should have now)
Basicaly, nothing on the car made it stand out other than the age of the driver.
I got stopped the day i brought it home, which i thought was fair enough, young lad, expensive to run, buy and insure for a lad of this age. But it never stopped there, i said a have only got 42 producers to date, that doesnt include the pulls where i eventualy started carrying my docs around with me... The car was even searched one night for suspision of a burgalry, this officer had stopped me 5 times in the last 2 month, he knew who i was he just thought he was being clever.
Any way, this carried on right until i got rid of it on. I then got a 306 RALLYE, agian, no mods, no nothing. I went un noticed for a month until some lad ran into the side of me outside the local nightclub where the police had to attend. Than guess what, the same sh** started all avoer again.
Its stopped again, as they dont know what im driving, i have an invisable white 5 door Micra and a newish FTO which is hardly ever out...
Jon
Just an UPDATE guys
My lawyer is calling all 9 officers to the wittness stand to be questioned over the incident...
I have been told that none of them will be allowed to read from their statements, just thier notes, so i guess its going to be hard for all of them to resight the same lie in court, one after the other....
things are starting to look up....
Thanks
Jon
My lawyer is calling all 9 officers to the wittness stand to be questioned over the incident...
I have been told that none of them will be allowed to read from their statements, just thier notes, so i guess its going to be hard for all of them to resight the same lie in court, one after the other....
things are starting to look up....
Thanks
Jon
gone said:
If you are going to use your girlfriend as a witness, make sure that she knows the score and properly!
Prosecution lawyers can be as bad if not worse than defence ones
Hi again people
Right, as for the quote above, he is calling them as i have told my lawye my version of events, that is all he hae to go on to defend me. He will question them about the truth that night, all they simply have to do is tell how the events unfolded that night, which should be easy for them, as they have to say how it was. If however they did that, there wouldnt be a case to answer...
Now there are alot of comments about driving around and "is this the whole story"
Lets get one thing clear, im not going to sit there and blow sunshine up there arse while they pull me over constantly. I do not think that im being unreasonable when i dont have a nice attitude with them ANYMORE...
Like i said earlier, i got stopped in the relitavly new Subaru, which is fair enough, there only doing there job. But these prducers are in the main, from 3 officers only.
But when you get pulled, your constantly being asked, "is this yours"
"Whos insurance is this on"
"how do you afford the insurance on this"
"you must be doing something other than engineering to fund your taste in cars"
All of the above after the 2nd time get very tedious. And yes i do get attitude with them, afterall, they have one with me thats why im constantly sat at the side of the road with the local area car with the lights going behind me. Even carrying the documents never helped, stupid excuses like "its to dark to make out the details, you will have to take them down the station son".
One other thing i wil add is that whilst this up to 4 month ago when i changed my car, AGAIN, i started taking my producers to a police station near my place of work. This happened to be out of the county, they do not like this one bit.
I have had enough of the whole thing, my confidence is the law has gone for good, trying to reason with these clowns is no longer an option... ANYONE WANT TO DISAGREE WITH ME HERE.
I dont have any motoring convictions, nor have there been any attempts at one,
This is very embarrasing to say the least.
As i first stated, there are 42 producers any onyone who is familiar with the HORT 1 will know of 4 boxes on them REASON FOR STOP check
offence
Accident
other
all but one has been ticked in the Check section, the other was for an accident outside the nightclud where someone drove into the side of my car.....
I hope this clears a few things for people, as my origional post was for advice, not a debate. Coming on here giving you only half the truth is of no use to me at all, how is that relevent to my case when there is yet more to the story. I have given my version of events and of corse there are 2 sides to every story, heres mine.......
Thanks to you all
Jon
Ok
I know you only have my word to go on here but try this one out
I have good clear video evidence of the 2nd stop.
In one statement, the officer that served the verbal NIP says he never touched my car door at any time, in fact
" i questioned (surname) and he was clearly adgitated, in fact i deemed his manor to be most aggressive, i stepped away from the vehicle as i feared for my saftey and that of the other officers around my so i called for more assistance"
That there is an extract from the serving PC. 5 more officers then arrived on scene to assist.
The video clearly shows this PC open my door, and pull me out of the car, his face is not clear as it was a side canera angle, but the numbers on his shoulder are clear as day.
So there is conflicting evidence between police statements and the police CCTV evidence. it also shows the officers all standing in a ring around me, very intimadating to say the least.
Does this sound like many officers who feared for thier safety, I THINK NOT.
Its these points that my lawyer i taking up with them.
The more points on the statements he can cast a doubt on, the better as far as im concerned,
Jon
I know you only have my word to go on here but try this one out
I have good clear video evidence of the 2nd stop.
In one statement, the officer that served the verbal NIP says he never touched my car door at any time, in fact
" i questioned (surname) and he was clearly adgitated, in fact i deemed his manor to be most aggressive, i stepped away from the vehicle as i feared for my saftey and that of the other officers around my so i called for more assistance"
That there is an extract from the serving PC. 5 more officers then arrived on scene to assist.
The video clearly shows this PC open my door, and pull me out of the car, his face is not clear as it was a side canera angle, but the numbers on his shoulder are clear as day.
So there is conflicting evidence between police statements and the police CCTV evidence. it also shows the officers all standing in a ring around me, very intimadating to say the least.
Does this sound like many officers who feared for thier safety, I THINK NOT.
Its these points that my lawyer i taking up with them.
The more points on the statements he can cast a doubt on, the better as far as im concerned,
Jon
Silverback
I can only apoligise for that statement.
I will refraise that, the dealings i have had with the police to date, have been clowns.
As i have never met you, (as far as im aware of anyway Give me your number, i have a list to check from), it would be unfair to brand you in the same fasion. I wasnt after an argument on here, just advice.
AS for my car, even if i wanted to do somthing which came remotely close to breaking any laws, such as loud exhaust, music ect, i couldnt. The key part to all of this, is that to date, i have not been charged with anything apart from this...
Jon
I can only apoligise for that statement.
I will refraise that, the dealings i have had with the police to date, have been clowns.
As i have never met you, (as far as im aware of anyway Give me your number, i have a list to check from), it would be unfair to brand you in the same fasion. I wasnt after an argument on here, just advice.
AS for my car, even if i wanted to do somthing which came remotely close to breaking any laws, such as loud exhaust, music ect, i couldnt. The key part to all of this, is that to date, i have not been charged with anything apart from this...
Jon
You tell me, of corse it doesnt tally, because the video shows what really happened, the statements dont show a thing, all they do is paint a picture at very best.
I have been told that the police can use notes and not the statements, is this not the case??? Advice only please
No i wasnt aggressive, anoyed yes, but ten agen who wouldnt be.
Im 5'10 and weigh 11 stone, against 9 officers, they going to be hard pushed to convice magistrates of that one. Its not as if i have previous or anything.
He clearly states he had to step away when it clearly shows him getting a hold of me...
I will say one more time, this is my version of events and i was looking for advice, people, not to be tried on the web...
Jon
I have been told that the police can use notes and not the statements, is this not the case??? Advice only please
No i wasnt aggressive, anoyed yes, but ten agen who wouldnt be.
Im 5'10 and weigh 11 stone, against 9 officers, they going to be hard pushed to convice magistrates of that one. Its not as if i have previous or anything.
He clearly states he had to step away when it clearly shows him getting a hold of me...
I will say one more time, this is my version of events and i was looking for advice, people, not to be tried on the web...
Jon
Pies said:
I have had enough of the whole thing, my confidence is the law has gone for good, trying to reason with these clowns is no longer an option... ANYONE WANT TO DISAGREE WITH ME HERE
Jon
Yep me.Sorry Jon but after the current situation has been sorted (either way) i would suggest you try to deal with the police.I know from past experience that things can only get worse in life if you don't try to deal with the police.If you think they are being awkward now you've seen nothing.I appreciated you have no faith in the BiB at the moment,but dont let it get to you.
I suggest once this is over you arrange a meet with the Chief Inspector (or whoever) and get a line drawn under this episode and get on with your life
Pies....
Nothing would please me more, i dont need this and i know im not the only person in this world out there in the same situation.
Im sure there are better things they can be doing, arresting drunks who kill people, people without insurance and the likes of.
Please note, im not starting another topic of conversation with the above points. Thats just a IMHO
Jon
Gone
It was advice i asked for, nothing else, that was my version of events and things were getting out of hand questioning my version.
Like i siad i was after advice, not to be tried on here and so far i have been given some sound advice.
All facts or stories (which ever you want to call them) have been given so that advice can be given based on my circumstances, not so that people can question my version of events.
Just to add, the verdict has not yet been given, thats why i was looking for advice in the first place,
Jon
>> Edited by evolution666 on Friday 12th November 19:17
It was advice i asked for, nothing else, that was my version of events and things were getting out of hand questioning my version.
Like i siad i was after advice, not to be tried on here and so far i have been given some sound advice.
All facts or stories (which ever you want to call them) have been given so that advice can be given based on my circumstances, not so that people can question my version of events.
Just to add, the verdict has not yet been given, thats why i was looking for advice in the first place,
Jon
>> Edited by evolution666 on Friday 12th November 19:17
Flat in Fifth said:
Aaah the answer to the question I have been waiting 5 pages for. To me 42 producers from just 3 officers speaks volumes.
Yes vendettas do occur and shameful it is too.
Pity evo's brief won't have any corroborating evidence from girlfriend. That makes things difficult in many ways. Care to tell us why? Just that it casts a few doubts in my mind. Sorry evo not trying to be awkward but there are two sides to every story.
As others advised earlier, just tell the truth and it will not vary, because that is what it is, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Being pessimistic about the bib angle. It is easy to expect that the Magnificent 3 will have their story off pat, written and verbal. The other 6? If the allegations vary so wildly from reality they would have to have extremely large cojones to go on the stand and potentially perjure themselves for a "mate."
Personally I wouldn't perjure myself for anybody, even family, some very unpleasant people inside if you get found out, not worth it.
Good luck. And I mean that in a genuine wish for you to see proper justice in action.
Oh bother, that can be read several ways too. evo if they are wrong uns, go kick some ass dude.
Hi again
Thanks for that.
As for the girlfriend, she is being called as a witness but my solicitor say she aint as good as an indipendant witness although what she has to say will count for something. So its a case of just wait and see i guess.
Once again i would like to thank people for their contribution, good and bad. One thing that this has highlighted is that that i am not the only person that this has happened to. Amongst all groups and societies, there are good, bad and the indifferent people in them.
There is a lesson to be learntfrom this by myself and maybe others too. Its like accidents, 99% can be avoided, wrong place wrong time and all that. Going down the dark road in the first place wasnt nessecary, it could have been avoided.
Not sure whether to post results or not, time will tell.
Thanks
Jon
superlightr said:
evolution666 - read all the posts. Very unplesant for you.
Just to ask and you dont have to reply, with no inference taken either way, do you have any other convictions or serious allegations made agaisnt you in the past ie non motoring for which the police may be trying to get their own back?
Hi there
No convictions, no attempts at any, never had any involvemant with the law at all until i bought the Subaru....
Just to add, im relativly new to the area, i live in consett, Co Durham.
Small town, lots of pubs, lots of fighting. So on the sunday night, as this happened just outside the town, i drove into the town to drop the girlfriend back at home. We all know how it works, Radio in, CCTV picks me up (thankfully) then im stopped by the area car, then more to follow...
BIG TOWN, NOTHING TO DO
Jon
Hi there people
Well the time came and went.
After an 8 and a half hour trial, i wasnt found not guilty, better than that,
..........CASE DISMISSED
After lots of police witnesses, they basicly took there ovn case apart.
I believe somebody said before, if you stick to the truth, then the story cannot differ, tell lies and your in for trouble. Espcialy when there are 8 police witness all trying to tell the same lie.
As for the reading of statements, it was not allowed by the
.
One of the PCSO officors even testified that they had mde there pocket book notes all together 3 days after the event, which just happens to coinside with the complaint i made about the harrasment and damages...
My lawyer ran rings round them and the court clerke was on my side the whole way it would seem.
They were all sick of watching the same video, 16 times in all.
As for celebrating, not really called for, this should never have got this far, dont get me wrong, but had i been found not guilty, i would have been pleased i didnt get convicted, but the NO CASE TO ANSWER makes my complaint a whole lot easier to deal with now.
I would take great comfort if i knew that the 8 involved would be disciplined for this, but i very much doubt it. More like there going to be after me with a vengance.
A minidisk recorder complete with charger is now in the car ready for there come back....
Some faith in the legal system has now been resored, but as for the police, its going to take alot more than this to set the ball rolling back in the right direction...
A low profile will be kept for the forseable future.
Once again, thanks for all the feedback and replys...
Jon
Well the time came and went.
After an 8 and a half hour trial, i wasnt found not guilty, better than that,
..........CASE DISMISSED
After lots of police witnesses, they basicly took there ovn case apart.
I believe somebody said before, if you stick to the truth, then the story cannot differ, tell lies and your in for trouble. Espcialy when there are 8 police witness all trying to tell the same lie.
As for the reading of statements, it was not allowed by the
. One of the PCSO officors even testified that they had mde there pocket book notes all together 3 days after the event, which just happens to coinside with the complaint i made about the harrasment and damages...
My lawyer ran rings round them and the court clerke was on my side the whole way it would seem.
They were all sick of watching the same video, 16 times in all.
As for celebrating, not really called for, this should never have got this far, dont get me wrong, but had i been found not guilty, i would have been pleased i didnt get convicted, but the NO CASE TO ANSWER makes my complaint a whole lot easier to deal with now.
I would take great comfort if i knew that the 8 involved would be disciplined for this, but i very much doubt it. More like there going to be after me with a vengance.
A minidisk recorder complete with charger is now in the car ready for there come back....
Some faith in the legal system has now been resored, but as for the police, its going to take alot more than this to set the ball rolling back in the right direction...
A low profile will be kept for the forseable future.
Once again, thanks for all the feedback and replys...
Jon
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff