Help: Ducati not honouring 'international' warranty

[DaineseMan]

I temporarily transported my 2012 Ducati MTS 1200 ST to Israel, which was purchased new in England a in June 2012.

A couple of days after I collected the bike from the airport, a problem developed with the bike and it had to go into the Tel Aviv dealership. However, to my surprise, the dealership demanded that I pay up front for the parts/labour but promised to reimburse me once the claim was approved by Ducati. I was very reluctant to do this, but there was no compromise on their end and I just wanted to go home - having had a sleepless night waiting for the motorcycle recovery- and therefore agreed.

Over a month later, I received a call from the dealer informing me that the claim was approved but that they could only reimburse me for 50% of what I paid. The manager said that, since I didn't purchase the bike from them, they were unwilling/unable to absorb the costs between what they pay for the part and what Ducati Italy pays them. (He claims the difference in costs is due to the Israeli import taxes that the dealer has to pay).

In any case, since the warranty is international, I was unhappy about this situation and am even more concerned if any future more serious warranty work would be required over the next few months.I reported the issue to Ducati HQ in Bologna and, after several weeks, they responded saying that they have advised the Israeli dealer what to do and that I should be in touch with the dealer directly from now on.

Indeed, I contacted the dealer today because I have a (potentially very expensive) additional fault and the dealer said that they've been in touch with Ducati HQ and that they will only take care of the warranty claim if I pay from the work up front, and will still only reimburse me with 50% of the costs.

Please advise me if I'm wrong, but I believe this treatment is a breach of the 'international' warranty agreement I had with Ducati when I purchased the motorcycle in England 18 months ago; see http://ducati.com/services/warranty/index.do

Can anyone offer advice on this issue? Having in mind that I purchased the vehicle from a UK dealer, who should I potentially be claiming against should I need to commence legal proceedings?

Edited by DaineseMan on Monday 30th December 11:56

[DaineseMan]

I don't have the service booklet with me now, but I have read it and it adds nothing to exclude them from liability in this situation.

[DaineseMan]

Thanks for your comments.

When I spoke to Ducati HQ on the phone, they were unwilling to disclose the advice they had given the Israeli dealer. I have asked the Israeli dealer to confirm in writing that Ducati Bologna have actually agreed that they should be charging me upfront for warranty work and then only reimbursing me with 50% of the costs. Have received no response yet and they are working today.

I tweeted @DucatiMotor and also hash-tagged Audi (the parent company) in the tweet. Never done this thing before, so let's see how it works not forgetting that the Italians are very strict about their holidays!

[DaineseMan]

Also, I raised the issue with the Ducati UK guys at the Ducati stand at the Motorcycle Live! show a few weeks ago. They were adamant that it's Ducati HQ that I need to be in touch with, but of course they would say that....

[DaineseMan]

I just spoke to BMW Motorrad Israel and they said that BMW Munich reimburse them for the parts 'landed' (i.e. the value after any import-duties) and that they would never charge a foreign customer for warranty work. So either Ducati Israel are lying or Ducati's warranty is st.

In regards to the legal agreements, unfortunately they're back home in London and there are no warranty booklets available online in electronic form....

If anyone has access to any relevant wording from a Ducati warranty booklet, I'd be most grateful if you could share it....

[DaineseMan]

d8mok said:

I can have a look at my warranty booklet tomorrow for you. Should be same wording on my 848 and M1100s.

Have you asked on ducatiforum.co.uk ? You might get a better reply or someone on there who can help.

Yep, that would be really helpful if you could look in your warranty booklet. Pls try and find any language that may exclude Ducati from being liable to pay the full 'landed' price for parts and labour.

[DaineseMan]

Breadvan72 said:

You need to check (1) what entity made the contract with you, (2) whether the contract specifies a governing law, and (3) whether it specifies jurisdiction for resolving disputes, as well as checking what may be said about repairs etc in countries other than the one where the bike was purchased.

Thanks for making these relevant points. I won't be able to get hold of my original sales contract until late January, but I'm going to try and get a copy from my dealer in England.

[DaineseMan]

3DP, The foreign policies of the current government have no connection to what an Israeli court of law would decide as the judiciary in Israel are distinct from the legislative/executive.
I don't intend on commencing proceedings in an Israeli court and hopefully the parties I've contracted with will be liable to the English courts - since that is where the product was purchased - but preferably Ducati will get their act together once they notice the negative PR they're getting from this in the Twitter war I will continue with.
The nature and tone of your posts do imply a certain agenda and I would prefer if posts remained relevant from now.

[DaineseMan]

Seems like it's been moved back to the correct section again...

[DaineseMan]

marshalla said:

OTOH, since we need to know the wording of the warranty, popping it into a forum where someone might have one to hand might have been helpful ?

One of the guys on this thread said he'd do that today

[DaineseMan]

Just received an email (in Hebrew) from Ducati Israel, which Google Translate interprets as: "after further verification with Ducati, we have decided in this case to give you a full refund".

I just hope that this sets a precedent for the future and that I also won't be charged upfront anymore.

Thanks for all the support, the social media route certainly seems to work.

[DaineseMan]

Breadvan72 said:

You need to check (1) what entity made the contract with you, (2) whether the contract specifies a governing law, and (3) whether it specifies jurisdiction for resolving disputes, as well as checking what may be said about repairs etc in countries other than the one where the bike was purchased.

Hi,
Unfortunately, contrary to what I thought, this issue has not been fully resolved. Although the Israeli dealer has refunded the costs of the original warranty repair, they have informed me that they're unwilling to provide services to me any longer because I'm a "money-losing customer". I also think they've discovered the forum conversations about them and are upset as a result of the bad publicity.This is particularly problematic now because another fault has developed with the bike and they are the sole importer of Ducati parts.
I've, without doubt, reached the stage where I'm prepared to take legal action. One of the main purposes for me in purchasing a new machine is the peace of mind associated with the manufacturer's warranty. The motorcycle is marketed as a 'globe-busting' type of machine (indeed what intended on and have in fact been doing with it) and therefore Ducati's breach (albeit via their agent) has been even more disappointing. For me, the let-down has been less about costs - and more about the hassle I've incurred in place of the peace-of-mind that I expected when purchasing the vehicle. For the same service, I might as well have purchased a 2-year-old machine for half the price!

Breadvan72, in response to your points:
(1) I'm having difficulty establishing who exactly made the sales contract with me. The 'goods' themselves were purchased from a Ducati dealership in the UK (which I need not name). I spoke to them today, and they are adamant (unsurprisingly) that they bear no responsibility over this dispute. Their argument was that they have done nothing wrong - which is correct - but in my effort to try to get them to help me, I tried to explain to them that they may still be responsible as the original supplier of the vehicle and the fact that one of their agents (in this case Ducati Israel) is the one causing the breach, is something that the Ducati members should deal with internally amongst themselves and therefore compensate each other accordingly; however it may be the original seller who may end up being the defendant against me. What do you think? Alternatively, could it be Ducati UK that are the defendants? I have verified that they are not just an importer, but are actually the UK entity of Ducati Italy.
Also, I took out a PCP with Black Horse for the first year, but this has been paid off now; do they have any responsibility over this?
(2) In terms of the governing law, wouldn't it, by default, come under UK consumer law (as that's where the goods were purchased)? Under the Liability Limitations section of the warranty book, it says "except as for the 'consumer' , or as otherwise provided by a mandatory regulation in force in the country of the Consumer, the Court of Bologna (Italy) shall have sole jurisdiction over and controversies in connection with these Warranty Conditions". Is there any reason why this contract should not be covered by UK consumer law and therefore fall under the jurisdiction of Bologna??
(3)As for repairs in other countries, the warranty book makes it pretty clear that the warranty is covered anywhere where there is an official dealer network; see image here

[DaineseMan]

Breadvan72 said:

One thing that you should take on board straight away is that you cannot recover damages for hassle, or loss of peace of mind. Such damages can be recovered in some instances such as holiday contracts, where peace of mind is the essence of the contract, but not in contracts relating to goods.

Interesting point, thanks for that.

Breadvan72 said:

I still need to see the contract to advise on jurisdiction.

Here is a scan of all the sections of the general warranty condition. (Btw, Ducati Manchester was not the dealer who sold the bike).

[DaineseMan]

Breadvan72 said:

Illegible (on my screen, anyway), and INCOMPLETE. Which part of "I need to see the WHOLE contract" are you struggling with? I think that I will give up on this thread, as you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

That is the whole contract from the service book. There are no other sections to it at all. I've uploaded the scans again via a different service, so it should be legible now. You may need to zoom in depending on your screen.

[DaineseMan]

So should I proceed against Ducati UK, the dealer, or both? Small claims court?

[DaineseMan]

Breadvan72 said:

NB do not rush to sue. Litigation does not bring closure, vindication, or happiness. It brings hassle and stress, and the law can rarely offer much more than the blunt instrument of money to compensate actual losses, and does not compensate you for being mucked about. Talk first, and only sue if you really have to. Stay calm, don't get shouty, and ignore the stupid advice given by someone above that slagging a company off on a bike forum will help get a result.

Correct, but part of the 'litigation' involves the negotiation beforehand. I need to know who to be putting the pressure on in the first place, so thanks for helping out on that point!

[DaineseMan]

Breadvan72 said:

Your contract is with Ducati SPA, an Italian company, but you can sue it here.

If I were to sue them here, would it be directed to their Italian entity or Ducati UK?

[DaineseMan]

Breadvan72 said:

PS: do not show this thread to the scarlet faced 'kippers in NPE! "EU law supporting some ordinary Brit? Never happen! It's just for lesbians and terrorists, blah, blah, etc, etc" (continued on page 97)

Lol. But even if Ducati SPA couldn't be sued in the UK, surely the dealer/retailer should have to take responsibility for the warranty promise made on behalf of Ducati....

[DaineseMan]

For anyone interested, here's how this case has been concluded:

Both Ducati UK and Ducati Italy continued to be non-responsive. Therefore issued county court claim, naming both the selling-dealer and Ducati UK as defendants.

This imminently woke the dormant s up and, after some negotiation, they agreed to all existing warranty issues to be carried out, as well as to provide for free: new fairings and panels, new tyres, new brakes, new liquids and oils, new chain and sprocket and a "Desmo" service, which I believe can be costly. The actual UK based Ducati dealer were a victim in this case at the hands of their useless suppliers in Italy, and I couldn't help but feel bad that they were a defendant in this case.

I did enjoy the Ducati, but this was far exceeded by the grief I had from the useless s in Italy. Instead of providing customer service and settling early, they tried to use lawless intimidation tactics by corresponding with me via fancy law firms and sending me their legal bills (which far exceeded what it would have cost to settle the entire case). We ended up settling out-of-court, but this was literally done on the steps to the actual court on the hearing date.

I've now defected to BMW, having just ordered the new S1000RR for March 1st, and I'm really looking forward to receiving the efficient customer service and hospitality that the Germans are renowned for.



ETA

Sorry not allowed.

Edited by Big Al. on Sunday 22 February 20:09