Paying lawyers in advance?
Discussion
POORCARDEALER said:
6 months months a p*ss take
I did some work almost three years ago. The solicitors didn't get money on account. They took a five figure line of credit from me, and then had trouble getting money from the client after the event. No questions over the work - we won - just that the client is abroad and has no assets here, and now no incentive to pay. The solicitors have so far managed to pay me half of what I'm owed in dribs and drabs. And they don't really care about the speed of payment. The usual response is that "yeah, but we're not being paid either, so it's bad for us".
They don't seem to get that they willingly took a credit risk, whereas I expect them to pay me, and not to offload their piss poor decision making on me.
And because we are taxed on turnover, not receipts, I'm in the happy position of having paid tax on money I haven't been paid.
Breadvan72 said:
Tell me about it, but if we complain the solicitors just remind us that there are other barristers.
Are you not able to follow the usual debt recovery procedures we'd use in the corporate world? Yes you need to think about relationships and future work and indeed there are now the odd one or two businesses around who won't give me work since we've had a little scrap over unpaid invoices. however the benefit of this is that others who do give me work know that I will follow up tardy payers. Greg66 said:
POORCARDEALER said:
6 months months a p*ss take
I did some work almost three years ago. The solicitors didn't get money on account. They took a five figure line of credit from me, and then had trouble getting money from the client after the event. No questions over the work - we won - just that the client is abroad and has no assets here, and now no incentive to pay. The solicitors have so far managed to pay me half of what I'm owed in dribs and drabs. And they don't really care about the speed of payment. The usual response is that "yeah, but we're not being paid either, so it's bad for us".
They don't seem to get that they willingly took a credit risk, whereas I expect them to pay me, and not to offload their piss poor decision making on me.
And because we are taxed on turnover, not receipts, I'm in the happy position of having paid tax on money I haven't been paid.
djohnson said:
Breadvan72 said:
Tell me about it, but if we complain the solicitors just remind us that there are other barristers.
Are you not able to follow the usual debt recovery procedures we'd use in the corporate world? Yes you need to think about relationships and future work and indeed there are now the odd one or two businesses around who won't give me work since we've had a little scrap over unpaid invoices. however the benefit of this is that others who do give me work know that I will follow up tardy payers. Breadvan72 said:
djohnson said:
Breadvan72 said:
Tell me about it, but if we complain the solicitors just remind us that there are other barristers.
Are you not able to follow the usual debt recovery procedures we'd use in the corporate world? Yes you need to think about relationships and future work and indeed there are now the odd one or two businesses around who won't give me work since we've had a little scrap over unpaid invoices. however the benefit of this is that others who do give me work know that I will follow up tardy payers. Try telling the tabloid readers over in N, P and E that. They are convinced that legal aid is an endless stream of liquid gold in which lawyers bathe while laughing at Joe Taxpayer, and will not be told otherwise. Of course, they all think that practising law is a piece of piss anyway, just as they think that selling cars is something anyone could do.
Breadvan72 said:
Try telling the tabloid readers over in N, P and E that. They are convinced that legal aid is an endless stream of liquid gold in which lawyers bathe while laughing at Joe Taxpayer, and will not be told otherwise. Of course, they all think that practising law is a piece of piss anyway, just as they think that selling cars is something anyone could do.
How they can refuse to pay disbursements Im not sure, but they regularly do.Yes we are all multi millionaires, dont you know !
Why? Assume an eight hour day, that's a gross rate (before expenses and tax) of £218.75 an hour (in reality the rate for a day will often cover more than eight hours of work). Try running a law firm at that rate and making a big profit. If you think the lawyer is getting paid 1750 a day, you think wrong.
Barristers have higher profit margins than solicitors. I reckon that for every £100 that I bill, after expenses and tax I get £35 ish. For every £100 that a law firm bills, probably less than £35 goes to the partners after expenses and tax.
Barristers have higher profit margins than solicitors. I reckon that for every £100 that I bill, after expenses and tax I get £35 ish. For every £100 that a law firm bills, probably less than £35 goes to the partners after expenses and tax.
Thanks for the insights. (FWIW, I have a good friend who is an expert witness on insurance fraud cases, and she often gets paid several years after cases being settled. She does not have a feisty admin/clerk to chase invoices.)
I have a bonus question: what does a consumer (client) do if the work is not done well (and perhaps not at all)? In this case, an hourly rate was agreed, at 5 hours for the half day plus 5 hours preparation. However, on the day, it was clear that barrister had done none of the preparation (or if she had, she had very poor recollection of the most basic details).
The problem my friend has (and it is my friend) is that he's worried that protesting too much simply gets him sacked as a client (and that he still wouldn't get his money back).
I have a bonus question: what does a consumer (client) do if the work is not done well (and perhaps not at all)? In this case, an hourly rate was agreed, at 5 hours for the half day plus 5 hours preparation. However, on the day, it was clear that barrister had done none of the preparation (or if she had, she had very poor recollection of the most basic details).
The problem my friend has (and it is my friend) is that he's worried that protesting too much simply gets him sacked as a client (and that he still wouldn't get his money back).
Breadvan72 said:
djohnson said:
Breadvan72 said:
Tell me about it, but if we complain the solicitors just remind us that there are other barristers.
Are you not able to follow the usual debt recovery procedures we'd use in the corporate world? Yes you need to think about relationships and future work and indeed there are now the odd one or two businesses around who won't give me work since we've had a little scrap over unpaid invoices. however the benefit of this is that others who do give me work know that I will follow up tardy payers. Having said that a lot of my work revolves around solicitors and the vast majority pay me at least within 3 weeks.
That's 175 an hour, and is arguably a bit too cheap a rate to get a good divorce lawyer. There is almost no such thing as a good, cheap lawyer of any description.
Your friend can complain first to the chambers, and then to the Bar Standards Board, but bear in mind that the perspective of a client, in the stressy setting of a divorce case, as to what is relevant and what is not may be somewhat inaccurate.
Your friend can complain first to the chambers, and then to the Bar Standards Board, but bear in mind that the perspective of a client, in the stressy setting of a divorce case, as to what is relevant and what is not may be somewhat inaccurate.
Breadvan72 said:
I reckon that for every £100 that I bill, after expenses and tax I get £35 ish.
Fag packet calculation ...£35 x 40 hour week = £1400
Let's assume you work 45 weeks per year, what with being self employed n'all ...
£63k p.a. net = cica £95k p.a.
Not bad but then again not great - especially if you live in Laaaandaaan. I know many people who get much more without the qualifications required to be a Barrister.
Edited by Red 4 on Saturday 29th March 18:35
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