Parking dispute
Discussion
My son has just bought the house on the right, along with quite a large garden behind that wooden fence. He also owns the full width space this side of the fence, from house to house and out as far as the foot path. We have the land registry title plan dated 02/04/14 showing this.
The problem is the neighbour on the left with the red car. She knows she doesn't own the ground, we showed her the title plan. But because she has parked there with the two previous owners consent for 20 years or so then it is really hers now. She says that she paid to concrete "her" side and to get the dropped curb years ago also.
Now she is refusing to park elsewhere, claiming that because she paid for the work and has parked there for so long, then we can not stop her now. Supposedly (I haven't seen proof) she has been to a solicitor about it and he told her she is 100% correct and to continue to park there.
Is she correct?? I don't think she is.
The problem is the neighbour on the left with the red car. She knows she doesn't own the ground, we showed her the title plan. But because she has parked there with the two previous owners consent for 20 years or so then it is really hers now. She says that she paid to concrete "her" side and to get the dropped curb years ago also.
Now she is refusing to park elsewhere, claiming that because she paid for the work and has parked there for so long, then we can not stop her now. Supposedly (I haven't seen proof) she has been to a solicitor about it and he told her she is 100% correct and to continue to park there.
Is she correct?? I don't think she is.
I should have said, we've thought about fold down bollards and fencing things off. (and nuking her, frozen sausages etc, before someone else says it) But that would be an inconvenience to him also.
It is more the legal side of things that is a concern, just how much claim does she actually have on the land ??? After using it for so long, with the previous owners consent.
ETA
would a solicitor give her that advice or is she spinning one
It is more the legal side of things that is a concern, just how much claim does she actually have on the land ??? After using it for so long, with the previous owners consent.
ETA
would a solicitor give her that advice or is she spinning one
Edited by TOPTON on Thursday 19th June 16:49
Thanks for all the answers so far guys. In answer to some questions-
There is no doubt he owns it. He's been in touch with his solicitor and was told it definitely is his property. Also the land registry forms we have show that too.
His solicitor also told him it is up to Mrs neighbour to prove the opposite, not him to prove it is his, that doesn't help though.
The area is good for 2 cars side by side, my lad and his girly want to park there so their cars are off the road. Blocking it with an old shed or skip would obviously take this option away.
Fitting a folding bollard is the best option, this will stop her from parking there but would also cause trouble. We would much rather come to a situation where she understands that she has no rights to do so, at the moment she thinks she does.
He only got the keys last Wednesday and this has certainly taken the shine off and the excitement of his first house purchase. At the moment he is seriously pissed off but also far too polite to argue and shout at "an old lady" as he puts it (she's 58)
There is no doubt he owns it. He's been in touch with his solicitor and was told it definitely is his property. Also the land registry forms we have show that too.
His solicitor also told him it is up to Mrs neighbour to prove the opposite, not him to prove it is his, that doesn't help though.
The area is good for 2 cars side by side, my lad and his girly want to park there so their cars are off the road. Blocking it with an old shed or skip would obviously take this option away.
Fitting a folding bollard is the best option, this will stop her from parking there but would also cause trouble. We would much rather come to a situation where she understands that she has no rights to do so, at the moment she thinks she does.
He only got the keys last Wednesday and this has certainly taken the shine off and the excitement of his first house purchase. At the moment he is seriously pissed off but also far too polite to argue and shout at "an old lady" as he puts it (she's 58)
New news from the neighbour, she is now saying that the person that bought the land years ago, gave it to her and that she is going to get a statement from him to say that.
Now I know she was very friendly with him for years as neighbours and they may just do this for her, whether true or not. They have nothing to gain or lose apart from doing their friend a favour.
There will be no paper trail from years ago as she is saying it was a verbal agreement.
Does this carry any weight for her, even though we know they are making it up, but no proof.
Now I know she was very friendly with him for years as neighbours and they may just do this for her, whether true or not. They have nothing to gain or lose apart from doing their friend a favour.
There will be no paper trail from years ago as she is saying it was a verbal agreement.
Does this carry any weight for her, even though we know they are making it up, but no proof.
Interesting points above.
This is a screen shot of the land registry forms dated 02/04/14. It wouldn't let me convert from my documents as it says it is password protected. Not by me it's not
The red area is obviously ours/sons. The section circled (by me) is the area that is in dispute. It shows the boundary lines with the footpath and Mrs neighbour's house. I think the white area was originally with the house and the shaded area is extra land purchased by someone in the past. (would make sense if it was that way) Not sure why it shows the wooden fence line on there, purchased at different times perhaps.
This is a screen shot of the land registry forms dated 02/04/14. It wouldn't let me convert from my documents as it says it is password protected. Not by me it's not
The red area is obviously ours/sons. The section circled (by me) is the area that is in dispute. It shows the boundary lines with the footpath and Mrs neighbour's house. I think the white area was originally with the house and the shaded area is extra land purchased by someone in the past. (would make sense if it was that way) Not sure why it shows the wooden fence line on there, purchased at different times perhaps.
Thanks again for all the replies.
So it seems not as straight forward as saying get off my land
The main worry is costs involved if it went on to a solicitor war. It is the first house for both of them and money is not exactly overflowing out of the pot.
They both work during the day so parking there to block her out is difficult. Mrs neighbour doesn't work as far as I know so she is parked up most of the day. As anywhere is nowadays, off road parking is difficult to come across so this house did tick all the boxes.
My lad is big and butch but filled with marsh mallow. He is concerned about upsetting an old lady (she's only 4 years older than me ffs). Whilst this shouldn't matter, to him it does. But he doesn't see the upset she is causing him and his girly.
Will update again when things go further, but I think a strongly worded solicitors letter to mrs neighbour is the way to go.
So it seems not as straight forward as saying get off my land
The main worry is costs involved if it went on to a solicitor war. It is the first house for both of them and money is not exactly overflowing out of the pot.
They both work during the day so parking there to block her out is difficult. Mrs neighbour doesn't work as far as I know so she is parked up most of the day. As anywhere is nowadays, off road parking is difficult to come across so this house did tick all the boxes.
My lad is big and butch but filled with marsh mallow. He is concerned about upsetting an old lady (she's only 4 years older than me ffs). Whilst this shouldn't matter, to him it does. But he doesn't see the upset she is causing him and his girly.
Will update again when things go further, but I think a strongly worded solicitors letter to mrs neighbour is the way to go.
to answer jbsportech
"I assume he was told at point of offer that he only had one space and the land registry says otherwise."
The house was a part ex property with Barratt Homes, so was empty of the previous owner. Barratts office is in Manchester so we were dealing with a local estate agent. They knew naff all about the property on the first visit, " never been here before and we are just keyholders" was her answer to my questions.
So I got in touch with Barrett and they sent out the land registry docs. So from the beginning we knew it was all ours.
"I assume he was told at point of offer that he only had one space and the land registry says otherwise."
The house was a part ex property with Barratt Homes, so was empty of the previous owner. Barratts office is in Manchester so we were dealing with a local estate agent. They knew naff all about the property on the first visit, " never been here before and we are just keyholders" was her answer to my questions.
So I got in touch with Barrett and they sent out the land registry docs. So from the beginning we knew it was all ours.
A recap--
It is number 67, mrs neighbour is on the left at 66.
House was bought with vacant possession from Barratt Homes, so we never got to speak to previous owner.
Previous owner lived there since 2011, before that Mr.M lived there for 20+ years. He bought the land and registered it to 67.
It was Mr.M that supposedly gave her permission (she then concreted it, no proof of this) and previous owner didn't mind either (so I'm told, no proof)
The house was bought, contracts signed etc on 11/06/14 with land registry showing son as title holders for all the land including double width car parking. No mention of any parking issues.
Mrs old lady told me on our first viewing " I'm not sure who owns this half, so I've been parking there" She is now denying saying that to me.
Obviously it's the weekend and nothing can be done yet.
Someone suggested getting mortgage company involved because ultimately it is their house/land and someone is trying to claim part of it. Is that a thing to do????
It is number 67, mrs neighbour is on the left at 66.
House was bought with vacant possession from Barratt Homes, so we never got to speak to previous owner.
Previous owner lived there since 2011, before that Mr.M lived there for 20+ years. He bought the land and registered it to 67.
It was Mr.M that supposedly gave her permission (she then concreted it, no proof of this) and previous owner didn't mind either (so I'm told, no proof)
The house was bought, contracts signed etc on 11/06/14 with land registry showing son as title holders for all the land including double width car parking. No mention of any parking issues.
Mrs old lady told me on our first viewing " I'm not sure who owns this half, so I've been parking there" She is now denying saying that to me.
Obviously it's the weekend and nothing can be done yet.
Someone suggested getting mortgage company involved because ultimately it is their house/land and someone is trying to claim part of it. Is that a thing to do????
Edited by TOPTON on Saturday 21st June 08:21
Edited by TOPTON on Saturday 21st June 08:45
johnny fotze said:
OP, plenty of advice to 'tell her this, tell her that', which will get you as far as you are now. Just out of interest (and I am neither encouraging nor condoning anything outside proper legal channels) do you think your son could do her in a fight? Should it come to that of course. Some of them elderlys can take some beating, especially the women.
(No, I haven't got anything useful to add either)
I don't have any experience of beating old ladies and I'm sure my lad hasn't neither. But saying that, she did say she felt intimidated by me when I spoke to her about parking there. I was talking in a calm and reasonable manner, (in front of other people) but pointing out to her that what she was doing was wrong and that I found it hard to believe that her solicitor advised she was correct. I told her that she would do better changing solicitor's. If she ever went to one that is, she showed no proof of this solicitors advice.(No, I haven't got anything useful to add either)
Son has talked to a few neighbours and it seems she has had a dispute in the past over claiming some back garden. He wasn't told the full story, just that there was a dispute of some type with her and neighbour on the other side of her house.
Son is talking to solicitor today as they were unavailable yesterday. Hopefully a letter is shortly following.
Mrs neighbour was away at the weekend but promptly parked there as soon as she got back on Sunday evening. What a cheeky cow
Son is talking to solicitor today as they were unavailable yesterday. Hopefully a letter is shortly following.
Mrs neighbour was away at the weekend but promptly parked there as soon as she got back on Sunday evening. What a cheeky cow
As I said, the dispute was with a neighbour on the other side, so no need to disclose or nothing to disclose with house purchase.
Son has talked to his solicitor, she said----- "we have done everything we should have done and there were no problems. Mrs neighbour should not be parking there. If you want a letter written out to her from us, then you will have to come onto the office and tell us what you want written"
Surely he doesn't need to take time off work (difficult to do at short notice) and be physically in the office to dictate a letter. The wording should be the solicitors legal jargon should it not.
He is going to see mrs neighbour tonight and say one more time in a polite voice------this is my property and I do not want you to park on it anymore. You have no legal claim over it at all.
Son has talked to his solicitor, she said----- "we have done everything we should have done and there were no problems. Mrs neighbour should not be parking there. If you want a letter written out to her from us, then you will have to come onto the office and tell us what you want written"
Surely he doesn't need to take time off work (difficult to do at short notice) and be physically in the office to dictate a letter. The wording should be the solicitors legal jargon should it not.
He is going to see mrs neighbour tonight and say one more time in a polite voice------this is my property and I do not want you to park on it anymore. You have no legal claim over it at all.
The solicitors informed us at the contract time that everything was rosy with no probs at all. I can't complain at this, if there was no paper trail to find then there was nothing to report. I found it strange that they said he needed to be in the office when they wrote a letter though.
Anyway, I have drafted this for him to hand to her tonight-------OPINIONS PLEASE
Dear Mrs neighbour
Re. Trespass to my property
I am writing to complain about your persistent trespass to my property and to request that you desist from further trespasses.
I have already informed you verbally on numerous occasions that this land belongs to me, as noted on ‘The Land Registry’ and I have asked you not to park there. It seems you choose to ignore this polite request.
What is required of you
I require you to immediately cease and desist from further trespass to my property. If you continue to trespass I may take action in the County Court to obtain a Prohibitive Injunction forbidding you from trespassing on my property. You will be required to pay the costs of this action, and if you breach the terms of the injunction you will be guilty of the criminal offence of Contempt of Court.
If for any reason you think you have a right to the above land, then please inform your solicitor to get in touch with Micky mouse solicitors, Workington with any relevant information.
Anyway, I have drafted this for him to hand to her tonight-------OPINIONS PLEASE
Dear Mrs neighbour
Re. Trespass to my property
I am writing to complain about your persistent trespass to my property and to request that you desist from further trespasses.
I have already informed you verbally on numerous occasions that this land belongs to me, as noted on ‘The Land Registry’ and I have asked you not to park there. It seems you choose to ignore this polite request.
What is required of you
I require you to immediately cease and desist from further trespass to my property. If you continue to trespass I may take action in the County Court to obtain a Prohibitive Injunction forbidding you from trespassing on my property. You will be required to pay the costs of this action, and if you breach the terms of the injunction you will be guilty of the criminal offence of Contempt of Court.
If for any reason you think you have a right to the above land, then please inform your solicitor to get in touch with Micky mouse solicitors, Workington with any relevant information.
Well gentlemen and ladies, PH does it again 
The letter was handed to her with a polite comment of "all the talking seems to have gotten us nowhere so here is my first official request. Thank you"
Son gave her it at 6.45 and her car was moved at 6.50. Hope this an end to it but we'll see as time goes on...
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions TT
The letter was handed to her with a polite comment of "all the talking seems to have gotten us nowhere so here is my first official request. Thank you"
Son gave her it at 6.45 and her car was moved at 6.50. Hope this an end to it but we'll see as time goes on...
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions TT
Sorry I didn't update this thread but didn't feel the need to as nothing changed from my last post. Mrs neighbour stopped parking there on the day of receiving the letter. She does park on the road right next to the dropped curb though, sometimes making it slightly difficult to get in and out but not impossible. I think she must get out and readjust her position because she gets it right every time to the inch.
She also didn't acknowledge them at all for months while out in the garden, no polite good morning or anything, just turned around and walked back into her house.
She has only recently began to respond with a smile but no verbal answers yet, what a mega sulk
She also didn't acknowledge them at all for months while out in the garden, no polite good morning or anything, just turned around and walked back into her house.
She has only recently began to respond with a smile but no verbal answers yet, what a mega sulk
speedking31 said:
TOPTON said:
I think she must get out and readjust her position because she gets it right every time to the inch.
Don't judge other's parking abilities based on your own.
. It was meant as a joke but sadly I missed out the smileyYou don't know me or my parking ability. But to settle any idle curiosity, my ability is second to none.
I demonstrate it to people and teach it 
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