"Travellers" - rights, welfare, legalities?
Discussion
Easy for this to turn into a traveller-slagging thread (and believe me, I'd be in the vanguard) but can we keep this to facts please as I need some input.
Long story short: We had a family of travellers (how I hate having to call them that) pitch up on our village green a few weeks back. Despite significant pressure from the local residents, the authorities took virtually no action. Parish Council > Borough Council > County Council, all that was done was that the county council "gypsy officer" visited the site and apparently got an assurance that they would move off 3 days later. Of course, the gyppos stuck 2 fingers up at that and stayed several more days before leaving overnight of their own accord. They were there for about 2 weeks.
Earlier this week another resident alerted the parish council that they were back scoping out the green. Surprise surprise, nothing done, and now overnight they have moved what looks like half of Dale Farm onto the green, apparently smashing down a fence or gate to get in.
Last time, "welfare" issues and "travellers' rights" were cited but not specified. What I would like to know, definitively, is what actual rights, of any sort, these vermin have? We all know, with our Daily Mails held high, how minority groups like this can trample roughshod over respectable taxpayers, but genuinely I want to know what they can and can't plead and get away with. Perhaps then the local authorities can equally be educated (funny me…).
Thanks.
Long story short: We had a family of travellers (how I hate having to call them that) pitch up on our village green a few weeks back. Despite significant pressure from the local residents, the authorities took virtually no action. Parish Council > Borough Council > County Council, all that was done was that the county council "gypsy officer" visited the site and apparently got an assurance that they would move off 3 days later. Of course, the gyppos stuck 2 fingers up at that and stayed several more days before leaving overnight of their own accord. They were there for about 2 weeks.
Earlier this week another resident alerted the parish council that they were back scoping out the green. Surprise surprise, nothing done, and now overnight they have moved what looks like half of Dale Farm onto the green, apparently smashing down a fence or gate to get in.
Last time, "welfare" issues and "travellers' rights" were cited but not specified. What I would like to know, definitively, is what actual rights, of any sort, these vermin have? We all know, with our Daily Mails held high, how minority groups like this can trample roughshod over respectable taxpayers, but genuinely I want to know what they can and can't plead and get away with. Perhaps then the local authorities can equally be educated (funny me…).
Thanks.
Can one of our resident lawyers answer me this please: Is it possible for a local authority to take out an injunction which prohibits travellers from pitching site anywhere within the curtilage of a locale, e.g. a village boundary? Possibly too much like common sense, but surely then they could immediately be evicted without all the usual pussyfooting around while they have free rent for a fortnight whilst they pillage anything not bolted down?
Martin4x4 said:
Guybrush said:
A little bit too close to this in my opinion.
Our problem has expanded over the past 36 hours. There are now said to be over 50 travellers on site, in 15 or so caravans. All the caravans look brand new to me, and all the vehicles are 12/13/14 plated. They have taken over the entire area, the green, the stream and the kids' playground. Plenty stories of locals going to use the playground and the kids being beaten up, etc. BiB have stationed themselves 100 yards away (seemingly a permanent presence) but strangely enough, in a lay-by where they can't actually see anything going on unless they move.
The local councils claim that they have served the dirty vermin c**** (I'm sorry, I don't use that word often but it does feel like the only appropriate epithet) with eviction notices and have said that if they are not off within 24 hours (served yesterday) they will go to court for eviction notices - but not until Tuesday?
They have said they will leave on Sunday but that's b
ks. There was one family there 2 weeks ago who were not even served with a notice, they were "consulted" on their plans to move on and left to depart at their leisure. Many of the residents told the council that the village would be seen as an easy touch and that this mass influx would happen if they didn't take firm action, and sadly we've been proven right. One of the families were even seen back here last Tues scoping it all out, reported to the council, and fk all was done about it.
Meantime the vermin continue to drive across the green (why, why, why why are they not being served with S.59s? Do it twice then take the vehicles off them? I bet I couldn't ride my enduro bike across the green once without being ticketed?) and flip us all the bird. 2 weeks ago, it took Environmental Health a day to clear the site of human excrement after just one family had been there; it's going to be a no-go zone for ages if/when this lot ever fk off. They are using the village stream, where all the local kids and families play in the summer, as a communal latrine.
Filthy dirty bds. Culling the lot of them like seals at birth would be too good for them.
The local councils claim that they have served the dirty vermin c**** (I'm sorry, I don't use that word often but it does feel like the only appropriate epithet) with eviction notices and have said that if they are not off within 24 hours (served yesterday) they will go to court for eviction notices - but not until Tuesday?
They have said they will leave on Sunday but that's bks. There was one family there 2 weeks ago who were not even served with a notice, they were "consulted" on their plans to move on and left to depart at their leisure. Many of the residents told the council that the village would be seen as an easy touch and that this mass influx would happen if they didn't take firm action, and sadly we've been proven right. One of the families were even seen back here last Tues scoping it all out, reported to the council, and fk all was done about it. Meantime the vermin continue to drive across the green (why, why, why why are they not being served with S.59s? Do it twice then take the vehicles off them? I bet I couldn't ride my enduro bike across the green once without being ticketed?) and flip us all the bird. 2 weeks ago, it took Environmental Health a day to clear the site of human excrement after just one family had been there; it's going to be a no-go zone for ages if/when this lot ever fk off. They are using the village stream, where all the local kids and families play in the summer, as a communal latrine.
Filthy dirty b
ds. Culling the lot of them like seals at birth would be too good for them.Edited by CAPP0 on Saturday 26th July 19:42
Breadvan72 said:
Also, how do you classify between the traveller who is a contributor to society and the traveller who isn't?
Those of you who talk of culls and of forced detention and forced labour: how do you identify the group who will be target of your policies?
Those of you who talk of culls and of forced detention and forced labour: how do you identify the group who will be target of your policies?
Funk said:
It's the 'fk-you' attitude of the traveller scum that causes the problem. They are like a plague.
……..
These scum, however, turn up, thieve anything that's not screwed down, plaster the area with litter, st and piss, cause upset and alarm to the local residents and once they've turned a beautiful area into something akin to a warzone they fk off to do the same elsewhere leaving the locals to face the cost of repairing the damage.
They are vile, despicable scum who work on a basis of intimidation and brazenly flouting the law.
BV, I take the underlying points you are making, but Funk's description above could not be more accurate, and this makes them blatantly obvious and extremely simple to identify, and to differentiate from other groups. Sure we can't eradicate them, of course not, but oh that we could. Unfortunately, for some bizarre reason everyone, EVERYONE, is scared of them (and I include all the relevant authorities in that group) and therefore they continue their activities at will and wherever it suits them. If you, or anyone else, have not had direct experience of these people then I would understand how you might feel that some of the views here are somewhat extreme but I can positively assure that if you do have the misfortune to encounter them first-hand you will soon understand the strength of feeling. I live perhaps 300 yards from this lot and yet I have been going around outside concealing or chaining down anything of the slightest value which I wish to retain ownership of, because I know what will happen if I don't.k-you' attitude of the traveller scum that causes the problem. They are like a plague.……..
These scum, however, turn up, thieve anything that's not screwed down, plaster the area with litter, s
t and piss, cause upset and alarm to the local residents and once they've turned a beautiful area into something akin to a warzone they fk off to do the same elsewhere leaving the locals to face the cost of repairing the damage.They are vile, despicable scum who work on a basis of intimidation and brazenly flouting the law.
Coincidentally (some may say carelessly!) I had a run-in with a completely separate group of exactly the same breed earlier this week. I tried to cycle past another encampment, elsewhere, whereupon my (right of) way was blocked by a number of small children and two dogs. Now, I'm of mature years and I have the PH-requisite build; however, this did not stop the group of children issuing direct threats against me ("you're not allowed here (I am) and we're going to set this dog on you if you move") and when I responded to the negative, a number of adults appeared, obviously having waited for the kids to stop someone and kick something off from which they could then "spring to their children's defence".
Since I posted that, I had the opportunity to take a PCSO to task over this (coincidentally, I was on my enduro bike on the way home from a run out). Standing next to me and watching a 14-plate white Audi drive across the green, he gave me a very similar explanation for his inaction in the face of my demand to nick the : those vehicles tow childrens' homes (yeah right, well fk off back to your brick-built homes in Ireland then) and therefore if the police confiscated the vehicles, there would be welfare issues as the children could not "use their homes".
It's fkn outrageous but as you say, a failure to play by the rules seems to imply that the rules are not therefore applied.
: those vehicles tow childrens' homes (yeah right, well fk off back to your brick-built homes in Ireland then) and therefore if the police confiscated the vehicles, there would be welfare issues as the children could not "use their homes". It's fkn outrageous but as you say, a failure to play by the rules seems to imply that the rules are not therefore applied.
So, they have finally been evicted (which sadly means that some other location is going to wake up to the anguished view of this lot pitched up outside their homes). The Parish Council have had the rubbish and refuse removed, but the village have bern advised to avoid the area due the (and I quote) "vast" amounts of human excrement around the trees and in the stream. The plan to address this is to "wait fir the rain to wash it away". In the middle of summer.
Apparently they also need to "sanitise" the kiddies playground which was taken over by the gyps.
Dirty filthy vermin scum.
Apparently they also need to "sanitise" the kiddies playground which was taken over by the gyps.
Dirty filthy vermin scum.
I strongly resent the inference that to be anti- (I dislike the word "traveller" which for me implies some level of respect) is to be bigoted.
t in your front garden before smacking your kids in the teeth and wandering around your property helping themselves with impunity and an utter lack of conscience to anything they so desire.
The above statement is based upon factual, documented evidence of what took place in my village last week.
I suggest that those who suggest we show them some love and give them a hug have yet to experience them at first hand; further, I think you'd be abnormal if you didn't alter your views after their visit. They are a fking plague and a curse upon every level and class of society.
In fact, I'll go further:
(I dislike the word "traveller" which for me implies some level of respect) is to be bigoted. dictionary definition of bigot said:
a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people
IMO there is nothing unfair in being against a massively antisocial group of people who do not, in any way shape or form, comply with or fit into society, who ignore if not actively try to destroy normal resonable social mores, and who would consider it normal behaviour to st in your front garden before smacking your kids in the teeth and wandering around your property helping themselves with impunity and an utter lack of conscience to anything they so desire.The above statement is based upon factual, documented evidence of what took place in my village last week.
I suggest that those who suggest we show them some love and give them a hug have yet to experience them at first hand; further, I think you'd be abnormal if you didn't alter your views after their visit. They are a f
king plague and a curse upon every level and class of society.In fact, I'll go further:
Martin4x4 said:
I have no doubt if travellers were treated in a civilised way the majority of them would respond similarly, it is human nature to 'fight' back when subject to oppression.
I'm sorry but you really have not the first idea what you are talking about. Not one jot. That statement would almost be amusing were it not so incredibly fantastical.Edited by CAPP0 on Thursday 31st July 12:35
Rovinghawk said:
Agreed.
My question is this: When will the powers that be finally acquire sufficient spinal fortitude to actually do something about the gits in question rather than just letting them carry on? This question could be addressed to police or both local & central government.
I have to obey the law under threat of sanction- why do they get away with it other than the fact that it's a bit more difficult to enforce the law on them than it is on me?
This is precisely my question/issue, and a large part of why I started the thread in the first place. My question is this: When will the powers that be finally acquire sufficient spinal fortitude to actually do something about the gits in question rather than just letting them carry on? This question could be addressed to police or both local & central government.
I have to obey the law under threat of sanction- why do they get away with it other than the fact that it's a bit more difficult to enforce the law on them than it is on me?
I wanted this thread to remain semi-serious but I couldn't let this go.
- a regular job: you jest, of course. If they're not busy extorting cash for dodgy tarmacing jobs, they simply rob whatever they want/need/fancy
- your bins collected: their waste is collected. Usually after they've been moved on, at a significantly-higher cost to the LA than a regular bin round, or if not, from a lay-by in an area of (otherwise) outstanding natural beauty
- a mortgage: now you're just bring silly
- protection from the Police against those committing crime against you:
Do ypu really imagine they would ever call the police? For anything??
tenpenceshort said:
(try getting regular mail, a regular job, your bins collected, a mortgage, protection from the Police against those committing crime against you, etc.).
- getting regular mail: I don't believe enough of them are adequately literate for this to cause them any issue- a regular job: you jest, of course. If they're not busy extorting cash for dodgy tarmacing jobs, they simply rob whatever they want/need/fancy
- your bins collected: their waste is collected. Usually after they've been moved on, at a significantly-higher cost to the LA than a regular bin round, or if not, from a lay-by in an area of (otherwise) outstanding natural beauty
- a mortgage: now you're just bring silly
- protection from the Police against those committing crime against you:
Do ypu really imagine they would ever call the police? For anything?? Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff