advice/help needed reg. motorbike crash
Discussion
hi guys
this is going to be a long one im afraid.
i know that some of you are aware i recently (5/5/14) had an accident on the ducati monster. the details briefly were i was overtaking a car by using the lane separators (diagonal white lines) still well within the speed limit and as i approached the car it suddenly and without indication moved in front of me on to the diag white lines and braked hard at the same time with what i view was the intention of turning into an un signposted farm entrance (that has a closed gate at the end to stop people driving down)i point this out as i realise if this was a junction signposted or otherwise it would not be an ideal overtaking point. This manouver caused me to impact the rear of the car and cartwheel down the road as i obviously had no time to brake or react.
i realise this wasnt an open and shut case but the impression i got from the police and family and friends was that i would not be found to blame.
now in the past few days i have received email saying the prosecution has elected rather than prosecute me for careless/dangerous driving to offer me a driver awareness course! obviously i am furious about this. and have spent a much time making sure i was in the right. pointing the officer to the relevant sections of the highway code i:e:
Highway Code 130: Areas of white diagonal stripes...If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
I'd say it's necessary to enter the hatched area in order to pass traffic as i ensured it was safe to do so. It's one of those grey areas in road law. The use of the word 'should not' instead of 'MUST NOT' means the rule is question is advisory, not law.
On the other hand, the car driver did not heed these:
HC 144: You MUST NOT -
drive dangerously
drive without due care and attention
drive without reasonable consideration for other road users.
HC 147: Be considerate. Be careful of and considerate towards all types of road users, especially those requiring extra care. You should -
try to be understanding if other road users cause problems; they may be inexperienced or not know the area well.
be patient; remember that anyone can make a mistake.
slow down and hold back if a road user pulls out into your path at a junction. Allow them to get clear. Do not over-react by driving too close behind to intimidate them.
HC 151: In slow-moving traffic. You should -
reduce the distance between you and the vehicle ahead to maintain traffic flow
never get so close to the vehicle in front that you cannot stop safely.
leave enough space to be able to manoeuvre if the vehicle in front breaks down or an emergency vehicle needs to get past.
be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side.
HC 160: Once moving you should -
be aware of other road users, especially cycles and motorcycles who may be filtering through the traffic. These are more difficult to see than larger vehicles and their riders are particularly vulnerable. Give them plenty of room...
HC 168: Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.
anyway skip to the point. what should i do? fight it take it on the chin?
im stumped
thanks
smiffy
this is going to be a long one im afraid.
i know that some of you are aware i recently (5/5/14) had an accident on the ducati monster. the details briefly were i was overtaking a car by using the lane separators (diagonal white lines) still well within the speed limit and as i approached the car it suddenly and without indication moved in front of me on to the diag white lines and braked hard at the same time with what i view was the intention of turning into an un signposted farm entrance (that has a closed gate at the end to stop people driving down)i point this out as i realise if this was a junction signposted or otherwise it would not be an ideal overtaking point. This manouver caused me to impact the rear of the car and cartwheel down the road as i obviously had no time to brake or react.
i realise this wasnt an open and shut case but the impression i got from the police and family and friends was that i would not be found to blame.
now in the past few days i have received email saying the prosecution has elected rather than prosecute me for careless/dangerous driving to offer me a driver awareness course! obviously i am furious about this. and have spent a much time making sure i was in the right. pointing the officer to the relevant sections of the highway code i:e:
Highway Code 130: Areas of white diagonal stripes...If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
I'd say it's necessary to enter the hatched area in order to pass traffic as i ensured it was safe to do so. It's one of those grey areas in road law. The use of the word 'should not' instead of 'MUST NOT' means the rule is question is advisory, not law.
On the other hand, the car driver did not heed these:
HC 144: You MUST NOT -
drive dangerously
drive without due care and attention
drive without reasonable consideration for other road users.
HC 147: Be considerate. Be careful of and considerate towards all types of road users, especially those requiring extra care. You should -
try to be understanding if other road users cause problems; they may be inexperienced or not know the area well.
be patient; remember that anyone can make a mistake.
slow down and hold back if a road user pulls out into your path at a junction. Allow them to get clear. Do not over-react by driving too close behind to intimidate them.
HC 151: In slow-moving traffic. You should -
reduce the distance between you and the vehicle ahead to maintain traffic flow
never get so close to the vehicle in front that you cannot stop safely.
leave enough space to be able to manoeuvre if the vehicle in front breaks down or an emergency vehicle needs to get past.
be aware of cyclists and motorcyclists who may be passing on either side.
HC 160: Once moving you should -
be aware of other road users, especially cycles and motorcycles who may be filtering through the traffic. These are more difficult to see than larger vehicles and their riders are particularly vulnerable. Give them plenty of room...
HC 168: Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.
anyway skip to the point. what should i do? fight it take it on the chin?
im stumped
thanks
smiffy
it had just passed from a 40 to NSL about 100 meters before as the vehicle didnt speed up i elected to overtake and at the time was approx doing 55. i would never normally have used hatched areas as i always (wrongly) assumed it was illegal to do so. it was only after doing a bike safe course with lincoln police i was actively encouraged to use these areas and told you are legally allowed to do so.
Edited by smiffyraf1 on Tuesday 19th August 14:03
im not sure what the driver has been offered and am unsure of witnesses. i know there was a broken down motorcyclist who i had stopped to help not far from the accident and am sure he would have seen but this is pretty much the first i have heard about it and have been in hospital since the accident due to my injuries.
wow genuinely surprised at all the douchebaggery on the forum.
was after advice not speculative based insults.
the reason i asked is as i believe, not through naivety or big headedness that i wasn't in the wrong and after being interviewed by police and told pretty much the same was surprised when i received an email to state otherwise.
I am reluctant to accept the course as feel as someone has said that it is an admission of guilt.
but as to an unnecessary overtake when is any overtake completely necessary and i guarantee everyone has done one. I agree that not the best place in the world to overtake but i had moved left to view any oncoming traffic and carried out all the safety checks before carrying out the manoeuvre.
im only going off what i've been told and what i've read but yes it was taught to use cross hatched areas go and speak to police motorcyclist if you do not trust me.
This wasnt a sportsbike and have never been interested in tearing round pi$$ing car drivers off with silly stunts. i was happy plodding along on my early duc monster which i had put a lot of time and effort in to make mint and only came out on sunny days unfortunately i think as soon as motorbike is mentioned people have pre conceptions.
was after advice not speculative based insults.
the reason i asked is as i believe, not through naivety or big headedness that i wasn't in the wrong and after being interviewed by police and told pretty much the same was surprised when i received an email to state otherwise.
I am reluctant to accept the course as feel as someone has said that it is an admission of guilt.
but as to an unnecessary overtake when is any overtake completely necessary and i guarantee everyone has done one. I agree that not the best place in the world to overtake but i had moved left to view any oncoming traffic and carried out all the safety checks before carrying out the manoeuvre.
im only going off what i've been told and what i've read but yes it was taught to use cross hatched areas go and speak to police motorcyclist if you do not trust me.
This wasnt a sportsbike and have never been interested in tearing round pi$$ing car drivers off with silly stunts. i was happy plodding along on my early duc monster which i had put a lot of time and effort in to make mint and only came out on sunny days unfortunately i think as soon as motorbike is mentioned people have pre conceptions.
well thank you thats the kind of information i was after and was unaware of that. I will always be the first to admit when im in the wrong and do not have a 'victim mentality' however if someone were to manoeuvre into you on your R1 be it reversing without looking behind, chatting on the phone and changing lanes without looking/indicating all of which i see regularly whilst out riding im sure you would be pretty pi$$ed too and not appreciate being told you had a 'victim mentality' i suppose in one way you are right and that you only have my account to go on and despite me knowing it to be fact you only have my word to go on.
And i didnt get away scott free. am still in hospital now with fractured hip, sternum, shattered right arm and three fractured vertabra. although that all might be down to my 'victim mentality'
And i didnt get away scott free. am still in hospital now with fractured hip, sternum, shattered right arm and three fractured vertabra. although that all might be down to my 'victim mentality'
it wasnt a turning. the road is about 4 miles away from my house and travel it on average once a day. The private lane that the driver turned into was to a farmyard that has a shut gate at the roadside to stop people driving in. it wasnt that i didnt observe them turning its that they initiate the turn as i was immediately behind and to the right
I dont see how the guy that crashed into your daughter could be anything but 100% at fault. they chose to use the hatching without ensuring the path was clear and it was safe to do so which before someone says it is completely different from my crash.
I dont see how the guy that crashed into your daughter could be anything but 100% at fault. they chose to use the hatching without ensuring the path was clear and it was safe to do so which before someone says it is completely different from my crash.
this is where i started to overtake https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.302894,-0.541627...
crash happened at the bottom of the pic in this one
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.303372,-0.541625...
i know your going to say that it has turn markers on the road but if you look at the lane you will see what im talking about (on the right) the one on the left is an emergency crash gate for RAF scampton. also there are no public road signs to indicate a turning approaching.
crash happened at the bottom of the pic in this one
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.303372,-0.541625...
i know your going to say that it has turn markers on the road but if you look at the lane you will see what im talking about (on the right) the one on the left is an emergency crash gate for RAF scampton. also there are no public road signs to indicate a turning approaching.
LoonR1 said:
It's a general comment around victim mentality that's borne out by on efforts that I used to frequent and to a lesser extent Biker banter on here. I see crap riding and crap driving every day, sometimes I'm one of the drivers / riders doing it.
I didn't suggest getting away scot free, but you need to stop confusing the alleged driving offence and the insurance claim, they are two separate cases, brought under different aspects of E&W law and more or less distinct from each other.
i didnt realise this bit which is why i thanked you. i thought they would take into account one when dealing with the otherI didn't suggest getting away scot free, but you need to stop confusing the alleged driving offence and the insurance claim, they are two separate cases, brought under different aspects of E&W law and more or less distinct from each other.
no both the ones on the right are too a private residence, a farm. the first one is just tractors and the second is for the private vehicles at the farm. the turn on the left is so emergency vehicles can access the airfield in the even of a crash/fire on the runway again not a road to anywhere
vonhosen said:
Could he physically turn into it from his position & speed?
If so it's an option available to him, so beware passing.
What is the outcome you are hoping for from all this?
yes he slowed rapidly moved across at the same time before the first turning. from what the police said in my interview they were doing a u-turn as had gone the wrong way.If so it's an option available to him, so beware passing.
What is the outcome you are hoping for from all this?
it doesnt but both of these have closed gates over the end of them (you cant see it on the second one as i assume its an old picture.) but i can count using the amount of fingers i have had inside your mum the times i have seen vehicles emerging or entering them within the 8 years i have lived there. (thats 0 by the way, you mum prefers my cock 
)
)WinstonWolf said:
In that short stretch you've got the main gate, a bus stop, crash gate and 3x clustered turnings. It's danger zone central when it comes to overtaking.Glad you're OK'ish, but it was a very bad spot to attempt a pass.
the main gate, bus stop and first crash gate are no where nearGassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff