Due Care and Attenton

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Hi All,

Not posted much..... more of a lurker

But after some advise, well more what to expect more than anything.

So, it was decided by plod in my local big town, that I was speeding/ racing blah, in reality following traffic, 'racing' in a single lane with no ability to overtake etc, so just went with it.

I was offered the 'What's driving us course' here in South Yorkshire. Attended, completed. Was around June time. Offence was is in May.

Now fast forward to last night, driving home long day, bad year (shall not bore you) again I know no excuses.

Drive a rather bright Red Audi - Stigma. Its an S3 - further stereotype. I'm not one for tailgating or overly rash driving, despite being relatively young, early/ mid 20's.

To give some context, last night not far from home, big brand new BMW, decides as I've caught them up over the course of a 60mph road, flash the brake lights to stop me getting too close. Fair enough, leave a lot of space.

Road goes to 40mph, area becomes a little more urban. Two traffic islands, slams its brakes on to 25mph or so, I could've slammed on, but instead I went to overtake as it was safe to do so. However of course the nice friendly BMW driver decides to speed up - foot to the floor, drop it a few gears jobbie.

Didn't quite catch me, but reduced the space to manoeuvre safely, so I went around the traffic island - small one with the two plastic bollards. No people or cars around bar us or behind. Queue flashing blues etc.

Apologised profusely, acknowledged I went around etc, explained the situation, to the officer - was on his own. Said he couldn't 'just warn' me as he'd seen me do it. So wrote me up as Driving without due care and attention, but put the speed down as the speed on the road i.e. 40mph etc

My real question is, how often can you do the course, would I be exempt due to the recent attendance of another. So is it points and a fine now, or court ?

Cheers

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Going around the island wasn't my intention, more a reaction to someone effectively going from 25mph to what must have been close to 60-70 to catch me up and cut me up.

The course it self was horribly misaligned to what I was adjudged to have done previously.

But yes I accept on the outside its a bad piece of driving. But I didn't set out to go, ahh traffic island round that the wrong way, (not a roundabout or mini'bout etc) that little slip of inviting asphalt in the middle of the road.

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To some of the comments about weaselesque and racing. I've not provided an excuse, just stated what happened.

I accept that it was cr@p driving, and haven't said to the contrary. Let alone racing, that was never mentioned as a reason for this, and couldn't be further from the truth. Nor have I ever raced a car in my life.

As far as court goes, I was under the impression as to what he said; It will be given to the local body. And they will decide as to points and a fine; court or to that of a driving course.

So I'm presuming a straight point addition and fine, or the possibility of court. But I understood the action of court to not necessarily require the attendance, more that if threatened/ summonsed an admission of guilt, would negate the need of attendance.

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JustinP1 said:

If you haven't received the offer of points in the car, then court it is. I severely doubt that you'd get another course based on the facts.

With regards to attendance, this is how it plays:

In a few months time, you'll get the officer's statement about how crap your driving was, racing etc making you out to be a lary youngster. The magistrates will see your driving record and they will decide how to punish you.

Do you want that all they have to go on before deciding your fine and points is a stereotype of a boy-racer in a fast car, with a damning statement against you?

Or, do you want to turn up, dress in a suit and show you are not, and grovel and mitigate, and hope?

Ahh, just the way it was phrased in the car when he was talking. That it could just be a straight up points and fine, or court or course. I knew I wouldn't get a course again.

Just would rather have a set fine and points than go down the route of court. But alas the amount of times I've been tailgated by a Corsa, 325, Honda, MG whatever and flashed to race etc has worn off, to see them scream past once the speed limit is reached, the oh are its wing mirrors going to be half 'nched worry.

And the obligatory; 'Hello son, noticed your driving around on a Friday night, bit odd for a lad of your age, on a night in Barnsley isn't it, and the insurance checks and ownership questions.

Time to sell I think

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walm said:

Reading the OP, I would say you raced the BMW.
Phrases such as "didn't quite catch me" and the fact you went the wrong side of the island rather than back off and slot behind him make it seem as if you were being what I would call "competitive".

S3s are hardly the most shouty hot-hatches are they?
And they are lovely cars.
I wouldn't sell.
Just don't attempt to overtake bellends in front of the BiBs!

Was more of a turn of phrase; Perhaps didn't quite catch up to where I was during his violent acceleration , perhaps. Was more intended to imply had made up the distance, but not quite up to where I was-level. And it was more a poor decision in that I hadn't fully evaluated just stopping, it seemed safer for both parties for me to go around, on an empty road than perform another manoeuvre.

Their shouty enough if you know the aluminium wing mirrors. But yes noted.

Red 4 said:

I'm confused ... did you overtake an unmarked police vehicle (the wrong side of a keep left bollard) or did a marked car see you complete the manoeuvre ?

No was another motorist. The junction it self prior - where it reduces to 40mph is intersected by another road, obscured by houses. Police vehicle was travelling down that road, so the officer saw me complete it from a distance back, then himself did it to overtake vehicles

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Red 4 said:

Cheers.

You won't get another course.

Depending on how the police in your force area operate, you may get the offer of (in effect) a FPN in the post (some forces now submit a report rather than offering a FPN at the roadside and the Fixed Penalty Office deal with the paperwork). FPN for Careless Driving is 3 points and £100 fine.

Alternatively you'll get a summons (which you can plead guilty to by post - or have your day in court).

Careless Driving sentence is between 3 -9 points and a fine of up to £5k. In the real world I'd say expect between 3 - 6 points and a couple of hundred £££ fine if it's dealt with by the court.

Thanks Red 4

What you've said falls in line with what the officer broadly spoke about, it going to an office and dealt with/ decided there of the outcome.

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zedx19 said:

Regardless of anything else you've said, overtaking on the wrong side of bollards is idiotic. Sounds to me like you needed to prove your masculinity to this "big brand new BMW".

The manoeuvre initially wasn't overtaking via routing around the island.

It was a result of the driver slamming his brakes on, me going to overtake, then when I did, him speeding up to the point where I felt the safest option was to go around, than cut him up or crash. In hindsight stopping would have been closer to the letter of the law. But didn't factor in my adrenaline/ scared rush.

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Cooperman said:

And/or a short ban?

After 0 points, no speeding incurred in this offence etc. Admittedly I've been on another course for a different offence / level of offence.

How would a ban be considered effective punishment?

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Breadvan72 said:

OP, you didn't have to overtake. The speed limit is not a target. Your description suggests that you were in competitive mode. Overtaking on the approach to a roundabout may well be hazardous, depending on the road layout and conditions. Driving is not all about using the car's performance. Anticipation and hazard evaluation are a big deal, and maybe you need to revise these subjects.

I think you may have misunderstood my ramblings.

The overtake wasn't on the approach to a roundabout, the road it self is over a mile long and straight. And objectively speaking unpopulated, what I went around was a traffic island relatively close to the start of the road. With oncoming traffic etc easily viewable.

I wouldn't say I used the cars power either, I didn't accelerate hard or go over 45mph in a 40

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He came to a virtual stop, I decided to over take when I hit 25. To accelerate upto someone doing a constant speed, it was my guess. Despite my eyesight, I cannot even see the speedo on a car behind me; therefore it was a guess: estimation of what would be required

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sherbertdip said:

I know you've taken a little bit of a bashing, from me included, but I and others just try and picture the scenario from what you wrote. However, i do wonder the following:

Why do you assume the driver of the BMW was pissed off at you because you caught him up and not that you were in his opinion stuck up his arse, hence he flashed the brake lights?

You then said that you left a lot of space, if so why did the driver get wound up to the point of slamming his brakes on?

Either the other driver was an arse, which if he did as you say speed up when you overtook, (which is potentially deserving of Dangerous Driving i would have said) or you were being antagonistic and really pissed him off.

So, did you piss him off by tailgating and then carrying out a rash overtake, or was he a total and utter prick?

Like I say I wasn't tailgating, I wasn't by any stretch close. To the point where to brake check me so many times is irrational.

I think the inclusion of my car and age has given way to a lot of stereotypes. Like I've said I'm not in the bios was of hanging off bumpers of doubling the speed limit.

Edit; it's worth noting I became close again when the road hit 40. As I wasn't expecting such a violent brake from 60 ish to 40 in the distance covered. But again left subsequent space, before the bmw again doing it again.

Edited by S3Ad on Thursday 28th August 18:16

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Mk3Spitfire said:

An S3 is to most people just another hatchback. (No offence, still lovely cars) I don't think that many would stereotype you for driving an S3. They may stereotype you for you manner of driving however!

Stenotype being relatively young with a moderately potentially highly powerful car. Hell bent on showing a bmw I'm better

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Breadvan72 said:

You still ended up going the wrong way around a traffic island and appear to think that that was OK. People have been gentle with you, OP, but with every post you make the more I think that an enforced rest from driving and then a bit of retraining would be good things.

I don't think it's good at all. But compared to a roundabout, I consider it quite considerably better.

I don't mean to offend. But how you can take my tone as thinking it's ok, or implying that I do, I was merely correcting your statement.

When from your statement, I took your meaning that I was a yob in a hatch, harassing other motorists wrangling each pony out of the engine, whilst negotiating a roundabout the wrong way.

Tone it's self I find hard to negotiate from words, when taken into the context of the reader.

Edited by S3Ad on Thursday 28th August 19:20

Edited by S3Ad on Thursday 28th August 19:21

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tenpenceshort said:

This is going to sound patronising, for which I apologise; you sound very much like I did at your age. At 23, back in 2002, I had a civic type-r, a fuel card and the open road to attack.

According to me, every piece of bad driving I did was either justified 'because', or it was the other drivers' fault.

I knew how to pass the attitude teat, so I was pulled over for driving too quickly a few times, but prosecuted (too) little.

With the greatest of respect, it's now time to reassess your driving, OP. It took a prison sentence for me to learn my lesson. I sincerely hope it doesn't take you such a commitment.

Oh no I fully understand what I've done. And it's been booked in to have an electrical issue fixed before sale.

I'm at the wrong point in my life for it's responsibilities as a car, power and speed wise. Thinking I'm invincible etc.

I've not dismissed me being in the wrong, just wanted to not have it misconstrued when I've read the comment.

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Mave said:

Not trying to stereotype at all based on age or car. But the story laid out I'm afraid leads me to stereotype a bit. My experience of blocked overtakes is either you cane it to get past, or you give up and pull back in. I simply can't picture responding to a blocked overtake by gently accelerating on the wrong side of an island; and if there was minimal clearance when the BMW started to accelerate to 60-70 mph, then I can't see how you would end up in front cruising at 45.

As explained in another post 60-70 was a guesstimate to invoke the sense it caught up quickly

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Breadvan72 said:

If that isn't trying to excuse what you did by suggesting that it wasn't dangerous, what is it it?

Also, did the BMW slow to 25 mph or almost stop? There is a big difference. If this whole story is not made up and you do indeed possess a car and a driving licence, can you try to be a bit more consistent? If you flap about like this in Court, things will not go well for you; but they don't look likely to go well anyway. If you receive a summons, I would contact agtlaw and, subject to his expert advice, think about preparing a guilty plea and some attempt at mitigation.

I didn't meant to offend/ upset you. Have valued your input.

I just wanted to correct the statement about a roundabout.

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Breadvan72 said:

You haven't offended or upset me at all, but I think that either this whole thread is a troll tale, or you have a problem with your attitude to driving.

I can assure you it's an attitude problem. And a lot of other issues, meaning I know I don't need the pressures of a car right now. And well, plainly not in the mind to have one currently.

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Breadvan72 said:

Don't be too gloomy. Look at what happened and its consequences as an opportunity to learn. In the event, no one was injured. Maybe sign up for some advanced driver training. I did when I was a silly yoof (with a car that exceeded my skill level, to make matters worse).

I appreciate it! But it's hard to stay positive with people bounding around prison etc aha.

Partly why I posted on here was to get yourself and agtlaw's thoughts! Read so many times what you've both posted and agreed wholeheartedly. As you say time to learn from it.

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Thanks for everyone's input. Has been much appreciated, for all posts critical, informational, emotive and motivational. I'll update the thread when I know more.

Thanks again.

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j4ckos mate said:

Any update on this?

Received a FPN & 3 points offer in the post yesterday.

There's no evidence other than the officers word against mine as he was alone w/o any video equipment and no witnesses.

But its a fair cop, and will accept it! It's certainly made me think twice and drive a lot more conscientiously.