Can I sue the dvla?
Discussion
Believe it or not, yesterday I found out they have revoked my car and truck licence again. I am devastated and dumbfounded, despite getting the all clear from my neuro surgeon and being told by dvla 3 weeks ago I could return too driving the dvla have now changed their mind?????
To add insult to injury I only found this out yesterday as I have been working away in Germany so did not get to open the letter till arriving home yesterday afternoon!
I am seething with anger as the letter was dated the 19th and licences revoked on the 20th.
So for the last 7 days I had no knowledge that I actually had no licence. To me this is a disgrace, I can only imagine what would have happened whilst I was abroad, if I had got stopped by officials or been involved in any kind of a accident!
Surely if a government agency such as dvla are going to make such a big decision they should have to notify you immediately by phone.
Clearly they didn't, and have IMO put me and the people on the roads around me at risk by just assuming I would have had access to read the letter they sent, on the day they assumed it would arrive.
I guess worst case scenario is I could of been arrested abroad whilst having no knowledge of the licences being revoked.
Could I possibly have a case here?
To add insult to injury I only found this out yesterday as I have been working away in Germany so did not get to open the letter till arriving home yesterday afternoon!
I am seething with anger as the letter was dated the 19th and licences revoked on the 20th.
So for the last 7 days I had no knowledge that I actually had no licence. To me this is a disgrace, I can only imagine what would have happened whilst I was abroad, if I had got stopped by officials or been involved in any kind of a accident!
Surely if a government agency such as dvla are going to make such a big decision they should have to notify you immediately by phone.
Clearly they didn't, and have IMO put me and the people on the roads around me at risk by just assuming I would have had access to read the letter they sent, on the day they assumed it would arrive.
I guess worst case scenario is I could of been arrested abroad whilst having no knowledge of the licences being revoked.
Could I possibly have a case here?
The whole scenario is abit long winded, but can put it on here later as I'm very interested on any experts thoughts!
OK, here goes.
On the 17th of May i was working away in Belfast and was on a night out when i slipped over backwards and hit my head. Unfortunately the result of this was a fractured skull in 2 places and an extradural hematoma, (3 internal bleeds of the brain.) I spent a nervous week in hospital, but was then allowed home. As i'm a lorry driver i immediately informed the dvla of my injuries and my licences were revoked which i fully expected. Since then i have just been waiting for and attending appointments for ct scans and medical investigations. Finally on the 27th of August my neuro specialist gave me the news that my injuries had healed and when the dvla contacted him he would inform them that in his opinion i was fit to drive again, which would enable me to return to work.
This was great news for me, as for the last 3 and a half months i'd survived on the pittance that i was entitled to according to the goverment, which was £72 a week ESA benefit.
So after the good news from the consultant i was just awaiting the all clear from the dvla. In this time i was offered a job and so contacted the dvla to see if they had any updates for me? The guy was very helpful and looked into it and informed me that on the dvla system my licences were not revoked and as long as the consultant had given me the all clear they had no problem with me returning to work and thats exactly what i did on the 11th of September. All had been going well and on the 16th i set off for a conference job in Munich which kept me out until i returned yesterday, it was then that i discovered the letter from the dvla informing me that they were revoking my licences again as from the 20th of September.
Their reason for this is they are saying that due to the nature of my serious head injuries that i am more likely to suffer from an epileptic seizure for 6-12 months from the date of my actual injuries received in May.
This to me just seems to be the dvla covering themselves should anything happen, although i have never either before, during or after my accident had an epileptic seizure. They say i can, and i will appeal against their decision, either by contacting them with additional medical information, or by going down the route of a magistrates court which i will look into, although without legal aid this will be a non starter as i can no longer work to earn any income and so cannot afford the legal costs.
Well i think that covers it all, its been quite a frustrating 4 months to say the least, but at least i'm still here.
My actual issue and reason for the OP is with the dvla.
If they are so keen to yet again revoke my licence should they not have made sure that i was made aware of it by the day it came into effect. Yes they wrote me a letter dated the 19th of September but just assumed i would recieve it, and read it by the 20th of September which wasn't possible as i was in Munich working.
Surely if you are going to revoke someones licence, especially if its an lgv licence should they not make sure the driver is aware of this situation before it came into effect rather than assuming or taking for granted that i would be aware of their decision. Clearly i was not, and so imo they have put me in a dangerous and illegal position. Fortunately nothing went wrong on the journey back, but there are a hell of a lot of what ifs and maybe's.....
It worries me what could or would have happened should i have been stopped by the authorities on my travels, or worse still been involved in any kind of vehicle accident. Technically i could now be locked up in a police station somewhere in Europe.
I also wonder what would have happened in the event of an accident with regards to insurance??? I know the company i did the job for are going to consult with their solicitors over this matter.
Its amazing in my job how many hoops we have to jump through constantly to always stay within the boundaries of the law, and if you get it slightly wrong at any stage the authorities will nick you for it, and especially in Europe this can result in a pretty big on the spot fine. In 20 years of wagon driving i have always somehow managed to keep within these boundaries, and never been fined for breaking any rules, and yet if i had been stopped at any point on my journey home i would have possibly been in a whole heap of trouble through no fault of my own.
Could the dvla be held responsible or sued in any way, shape, or form for not making sure i was fully aware that they were revoking my licence on the 20th of September?
sorry for the long post.
OK, here goes.
On the 17th of May i was working away in Belfast and was on a night out when i slipped over backwards and hit my head. Unfortunately the result of this was a fractured skull in 2 places and an extradural hematoma, (3 internal bleeds of the brain.) I spent a nervous week in hospital, but was then allowed home. As i'm a lorry driver i immediately informed the dvla of my injuries and my licences were revoked which i fully expected. Since then i have just been waiting for and attending appointments for ct scans and medical investigations. Finally on the 27th of August my neuro specialist gave me the news that my injuries had healed and when the dvla contacted him he would inform them that in his opinion i was fit to drive again, which would enable me to return to work.
This was great news for me, as for the last 3 and a half months i'd survived on the pittance that i was entitled to according to the goverment, which was £72 a week ESA benefit.
So after the good news from the consultant i was just awaiting the all clear from the dvla. In this time i was offered a job and so contacted the dvla to see if they had any updates for me? The guy was very helpful and looked into it and informed me that on the dvla system my licences were not revoked and as long as the consultant had given me the all clear they had no problem with me returning to work and thats exactly what i did on the 11th of September. All had been going well and on the 16th i set off for a conference job in Munich which kept me out until i returned yesterday, it was then that i discovered the letter from the dvla informing me that they were revoking my licences again as from the 20th of September.
Their reason for this is they are saying that due to the nature of my serious head injuries that i am more likely to suffer from an epileptic seizure for 6-12 months from the date of my actual injuries received in May.
This to me just seems to be the dvla covering themselves should anything happen, although i have never either before, during or after my accident had an epileptic seizure. They say i can, and i will appeal against their decision, either by contacting them with additional medical information, or by going down the route of a magistrates court which i will look into, although without legal aid this will be a non starter as i can no longer work to earn any income and so cannot afford the legal costs.
Well i think that covers it all, its been quite a frustrating 4 months to say the least, but at least i'm still here.
My actual issue and reason for the OP is with the dvla.
If they are so keen to yet again revoke my licence should they not have made sure that i was made aware of it by the day it came into effect. Yes they wrote me a letter dated the 19th of September but just assumed i would recieve it, and read it by the 20th of September which wasn't possible as i was in Munich working.
Surely if you are going to revoke someones licence, especially if its an lgv licence should they not make sure the driver is aware of this situation before it came into effect rather than assuming or taking for granted that i would be aware of their decision. Clearly i was not, and so imo they have put me in a dangerous and illegal position. Fortunately nothing went wrong on the journey back, but there are a hell of a lot of what ifs and maybe's.....
It worries me what could or would have happened should i have been stopped by the authorities on my travels, or worse still been involved in any kind of vehicle accident. Technically i could now be locked up in a police station somewhere in Europe.
I also wonder what would have happened in the event of an accident with regards to insurance??? I know the company i did the job for are going to consult with their solicitors over this matter.
Its amazing in my job how many hoops we have to jump through constantly to always stay within the boundaries of the law, and if you get it slightly wrong at any stage the authorities will nick you for it, and especially in Europe this can result in a pretty big on the spot fine. In 20 years of wagon driving i have always somehow managed to keep within these boundaries, and never been fined for breaking any rules, and yet if i had been stopped at any point on my journey home i would have possibly been in a whole heap of trouble through no fault of my own.
Could the dvla be held responsible or sued in any way, shape, or form for not making sure i was fully aware that they were revoking my licence on the 20th of September?
sorry for the long post.
Edited by chilistrucker on Sunday 28th September 20:26
TooMany2cvs said:
How have people been "put at risk"?
It's a good question.I can only assume that if they revoked my licence due to their concerns I could have a seizure, then anyone I passed, or passed me from the 20th-27th of September!
The 20th was when they revoked it, but as I was working away in Europe till the 27th I had no access to their letter until the 27th.
On the 27th of August, after 3 and a half months of medical investigations and ct scans my neuro consultant gave me the good news that my injuries had healed and in his opinion I was fit to return to driving/work and would confirm this when the dvla wrote to him.
Whilst this was all on going I was offered a job, so thought I'd phone the medical team at dvla to find out the current situation?
The guy looked into it for me whilst I was on the phone and explained that on the dvla s system my licences were not revoked, and that as I had the all clear from the neuro consultant they had no problem with me returning to work.
I was over the moon as had now been off of work for 4 months.
So I returned to work and all was well until yesterday when I got to see the latest letter from the dvla, stating that,
"Due to you having received a serious traumatic brain injury, you are at risk of having an epileptic seizure."
So despite the opinion of my neuro consultant , the dvla have decided to revoke my licence for a period of at least 6 months from when I received the injuries.
Obviously although I may not agree with it, this appears to me, too be the dvla safely covering themselves with this issue.
I have not had any epileptic seizures before, during or since the injuries I received, but too the dvla guess I am just another statistic.
The dvla have never met me, or asked to see me, or medically test me in person, but have revoked my licence anyway.
I will appeal against their decision, and am exceptionally unhappy in the way in which they have informed me of their decisions in this matter as there is a period of 7 days where unbeknown to me I was at risk of being arrested, fined, etc for just doing my job, which at the time I thought I was legally allowed to do from the information the dvla had given me at the time.
Whilst this was all on going I was offered a job, so thought I'd phone the medical team at dvla to find out the current situation?
The guy looked into it for me whilst I was on the phone and explained that on the dvla s system my licences were not revoked, and that as I had the all clear from the neuro consultant they had no problem with me returning to work.
I was over the moon as had now been off of work for 4 months.
So I returned to work and all was well until yesterday when I got to see the latest letter from the dvla, stating that,
"Due to you having received a serious traumatic brain injury, you are at risk of having an epileptic seizure."
So despite the opinion of my neuro consultant , the dvla have decided to revoke my licence for a period of at least 6 months from when I received the injuries.
Obviously although I may not agree with it, this appears to me, too be the dvla safely covering themselves with this issue.
I have not had any epileptic seizures before, during or since the injuries I received, but too the dvla guess I am just another statistic.
The dvla have never met me, or asked to see me, or medically test me in person, but have revoked my licence anyway.
I will appeal against their decision, and am exceptionally unhappy in the way in which they have informed me of their decisions in this matter as there is a period of 7 days where unbeknown to me I was at risk of being arrested, fined, etc for just doing my job, which at the time I thought I was legally allowed to do from the information the dvla had given me at the time.
I will be phoning my neurologist tomorrow to see if i can ask him those questions.
Re having the license in hand, after being told by dvla on the phone that i was ok to drive and having a job waiting after 4 months of being signed off i was just so eager to get back to it.
I have a note of the time and date i had that phonecall with dvla, and assume they record their calls?
Also the company i started with would have had to contact dvla to check i was ok for their insurance as i made them fully aware of my situation at the interview.
Re having the license in hand, after being told by dvla on the phone that i was ok to drive and having a job waiting after 4 months of being signed off i was just so eager to get back to it.
I have a note of the time and date i had that phonecall with dvla, and assume they record their calls?
Also the company i started with would have had to contact dvla to check i was ok for their insurance as i made them fully aware of my situation at the interview.
Jasandjules said:
Yes you can sue the Govt. Well, you can try!
If i thought i had half a chance i would. In various different departments the goverment have done a pretty good job of shafting me this last 4 months, despite the fact that since leaving school 26 years ago i have worked full time and always paid my tax and n.i.Slidingpillar said:
Wish I'd read both threads here before speaking.
I'm not a neurologist but for various reasons researched the issue about 4 years ago. The issue of fits and seizures is crucial here. If you've never had one, I believe you get your licence back quicker, but any suggestion of a fit or seizure, I believe you need 12 months before DVLC clear you to drive.
The drugs you are on is another matter. If you are currently on phenytoin then I think you won't get a licence as the drug is an anti-convulsant even if there are no records of a seizure. Don't know how widespread it is, but I've known it used in case of a seizure where no record exists of one actually having take place. There may be other drugs with similar effects and these days with the internet, it is easy to see what something does.
Consultants by their very nature are switched on dudes so hopefully you'll find out what to do next.
Cheers I'm not a neurologist but for various reasons researched the issue about 4 years ago. The issue of fits and seizures is crucial here. If you've never had one, I believe you get your licence back quicker, but any suggestion of a fit or seizure, I believe you need 12 months before DVLC clear you to drive.
The drugs you are on is another matter. If you are currently on phenytoin then I think you won't get a licence as the drug is an anti-convulsant even if there are no records of a seizure. Don't know how widespread it is, but I've known it used in case of a seizure where no record exists of one actually having take place. There may be other drugs with similar effects and these days with the internet, it is easy to see what something does.
Consultants by their very nature are switched on dudes so hopefully you'll find out what to do next.
Tbh the only drugs I've been given or told to take since this happened are normal heacache tablets and I didn't need many. The big worry was the few days in hospital at the start as they were talking about operating to relieve the swelling, fortunately I was very lucky and avoided this.
My consultant reminded me at the last scan just how 'lucky' I'd been.
btw, thanks to all for the input and good wishes, much appreciated.
All I really want is to go back to work, but to get some sort of payback against a crappy system may just put a wry smile back on my face.
I try not to Nigel, but its that or throw the towel in I think.
The system has really grinded me down over this whole scenario, but luckily the mrs and I are becoming used to the steady stream of it.
They will not beat me, I am 100% focused on getting my licence back, and I won't roll over and play dead for the faceless and spineless idiots I've had to deal with thus far.
I'll keep trying to go onwards and upwards
The system has really grinded me down over this whole scenario, but luckily the mrs and I are becoming used to the steady stream of it.
They will not beat me, I am 100% focused on getting my licence back, and I won't roll over and play dead for the faceless and spineless idiots I've had to deal with thus far.
I'll keep trying to go onwards and upwards
Bread van, thanks I guessed that would be the case.
Agtlaw thanks also for the links, much appreciated
Crickey thank you that is a very interesting post. I have spoken to dvla this morning and asked to speak to Mr S Thomas direct as his was the name on the letter sent to me, but apparently as he is head of the dvla medical dept nobody can speak to him, Really???
Anyway I can apparently already apply for my car and truck licences back, (JEEZUS) due to the timescales already served!
So I have an appointment with my GP on Thursday, and later today will most certainly be sending a very long and detailed letter to my local MP, I certainly don't have anything to lose.
Agtlaw thanks also for the links, much appreciated
Crickey thank you that is a very interesting post. I have spoken to dvla this morning and asked to speak to Mr S Thomas direct as his was the name on the letter sent to me, but apparently as he is head of the dvla medical dept nobody can speak to him, Really???
Anyway I can apparently already apply for my car and truck licences back, (JEEZUS) due to the timescales already served!
So I have an appointment with my GP on Thursday, and later today will most certainly be sending a very long and detailed letter to my local MP, I certainly don't have anything to lose.
Yes my appointment with GP is to see if she will appeal to dvla with regards to getting the licence back?
Speaking to the dvla yesterday was of no use really but not surprised !
Currently about half way through my email to the MP, listing the events, and my thoughts of everything that has happened from the 17th of May up till today!!!
It's turning into a very long email, but I'm enjoying it.
Speaking to the dvla yesterday was of no use really but not surprised !
Currently about half way through my email to the MP, listing the events, and my thoughts of everything that has happened from the 17th of May up till today!!!
It's turning into a very long email, but I'm enjoying it.
Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts and input, it really is appreciated 
The MP seems genuinely helpful and has wrote to Mr S Thomas, (head of dvla medical dept) expressing his concerns over my case, and the decision to overrule my neuro consultant. Fingers crossed I guess, but this is my best hope currently.
If this fails, I would consider the magistrates route but am sure this would be costly and after 5 months now of no work sadly the money tree is showing signs of autumn.
I just want to go back to the job I love and earn my own money again.
The MP seems genuinely helpful and has wrote to Mr S Thomas, (head of dvla medical dept) expressing his concerns over my case, and the decision to overrule my neuro consultant. Fingers crossed I guess, but this is my best hope currently.
If this fails, I would consider the magistrates route but am sure this would be costly and after 5 months now of no work sadly the money tree is showing signs of autumn.
I just want to go back to the job I love and earn my own money again.
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