Advice please, AGTLAW, LoonR1, BV, Police officers.

[Nigel Worc's]

What ho chaps.

Looks like a bit of a personal disaster for me, my 3 year driving licence expires on 4/11/14, and it looks rather doubtful that DVLA are going to renew it anytime soon.

I'm an insulin dependant Diabetic, hence the three year period.

DVLA medical are very difficult to talk to these days, you generally get a recorded message telling you how they are too busy to take your call.

I've managed to speak to them twice in the last couple of weeks, the staff are very helpful and polite, but although they can't say for certain, they think it is very unlikely I'll hear anything before my licence expires.

They are being very honest, they sent me the paperwork in August, I returned it in August,it was booked onto their system in August, but my application hasn't even been looked at yet.

The lady I spoke to today suggests I use sect 88 ? of the road traffic act, she says to do this I need to see my doctor, make sure I have their approval to drive, notify my insurance and get their approval, and then legally I may drive until either my licence is revoked (unlikely) or they issue me a new licence.

I've spoken to my doctors surgery, they are going to ring me tomorrow, and I've spoken to my insurance broker, who have spoken to the underwriters, and they have said they'll continue to insure me on my present policy as long as they have a copy of the letter I must obtain from my doctor saying I'm ok to drive.

What if any pitfalls am I likely to face after the 4th of November ?

I guess I won't be able to hire vehicles, or drive outside of the UK ?

My van is registered to me, will the Police ANPR systems "ping" that the registered keeper has an expired licence ?

Would a Police Constable, at the side of the road, actually be happy with a doctors letter and an expired licence ?

I am also a named driver on several policies, wife, daughter, mate etc, am I going to need to notify them all ?

Many thanks in advance.

Edited by Nigel Worc's on Thursday 16th October 20:39

[Nigel Worc's]

Mk3Spitfire said:

I would be vary wary about a Dr's letter getting you off the hook. If you're stopped and a DL check and DVS check show you have no licence, you could well be waving goodbye to your car on the back of a low loader. I don't know the exact position you're in, but I'd be careful.

Edited by Mk3Spitfire on Thursday 16th October 20:52

Could you check that for me please ?

What I've written is what I'm being advised to do by DVLA.

No licence, no job !

[Nigel Worc's]

Mk3Spitfire said:

Nigel Worc's said:

Could you check that for me please ?

What I've written is what I'm being advised to do by DVLA.

No licence, no job !

I am in work tomorrow and will check with one of my Traffpol compadres. If you don't get a definitive answer by then.

Many thanks.

[Nigel Worc's]

Mk3Spitfire said:

Had a chat with Traffpol today...it will go on what your DL status says. So if DVLA are saying it's revoked then no Dr's letter will save you at the roadside. As mentioned above, DVLA won't deal with PC's and so we can only go on a PNC DL check or a DVS check if there's a trained operator. Advice Traffpol gave was to forward the Dr's letter to the DVLA ASAP and hopefully they'll reissue.

I think you miss understand me.

I am in no danger of having my licence revoked.

It just expires, DVLA have all the paperwork, they've had it since August, they just haven't done anything with it as yet.

My insurance are happy as long as they get a copy of the doctors letter.
My Doctor is happy, and is arranging for his secretary to type the letter.

So if stopped by you or one of your fellow Constables (and this in only likely to happen if ANPR pings me as licence expired ,not revoked, expired), I will be able to present you with the doctors letter, the insurance letter, and an expired licence.

It would appear I'm only in danger of any issues from Constables, as what I may be doing is lawful, but I'm reliant upon the Constable knowing that, and not reverting to Little Britain "computer says no" status, which I'm hoping is rather unlikely.

I've never been in the position of driving without a current licence before, I have a couple of weeks left, so I'm trying to get everything sorted now, whilst my licence is still in date.

This is cutbacks, nothing else, DVLA just don't have the manpower to deal with their workload now.

Apparently they just signed me off three years ago, without checking, so I'm rather hoping they do it again.

[Nigel Worc's]

Clipper22 said:

Nigel, have you got a letter from DVLA stating they are happy for you to drive while they sort out the status?

The recent advice I got from our DVLA liaison officer regarding driving licences included a bit about expired substantive.

Expired substantive can be subject to section 165 seizure and a FPN (although non endorsable). Some drivers may have a letter from DVLA allowing them to drive, even though the licence shows as expired - if that is the case, no seizure, no FPN, just note details and contact a DVLA liaison officer to check. If none available, allow to continue, report for offence, and chase up slow time.

Nope no letter, apparently sect 88 of the road traffic act covers it, so they tell me.

Report for offence ? what offence if it is allowed ?

[Nigel Worc's]

Clipper22 said:

Sorry Nigel, let me explain properly.

I stop you, you produce an expired substantive licence, usually cut and dried. However, this time, you have a letter from DVLA (preferred), or something else that casts doubt on your licence status (doctors letter, etc).

So, I try to contact my DVLA liaison officer - however, there is no-one available.

So, I report you for driving otherwise in accordance and send you on your way. I don't seize the car, I don't offer a FPN.
I then chase DVLA through our liaison officer - they say either you are entitled to drive (no further action) or that you aren't entitled to drive (I have reported you already, so submit a file).

Thank you.

I have just e-mailed them, asking for something in writing that I could show you, I will have one from my doctor, and one from my insurance.

Trouble is, they've had my application since August, if the e-mail gets dealt with on the same time scale as my application, I'm not going to get anything.

[Nigel Worc's]

IanA2 said:

Had a look at this?

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver...

They must have (I can't find them) published service standards indicating turnaround times etc and I would have though your experience does not meet them.

Thank you.

It isn't a good feeling preparing to drive without an in date licence, all I can do is try to get enough paperwork in place to stop the Police seizing my van if I am noticed, I'm advised what I'm doing is lawful, it is afterall DVLA that are advising me to do it, and most notably, my insurance are happy to continue to cover me.

I'm not sure complaining about them is going to help, I don't think for a moment they are doing this deliberately, with all the cutbacks and closure of the local offices, their workload must have increased.

If it was only for a few days I'd just take a few days off, but they've no idea when my application will be looked at, so it is a bit open ended, and obviously I need to work.

Even my MP is trying to help me, he e-mailed me back last night to ask me for my licence number, but if pressure from him makes them do mine, some other poor sod loses out, and the only way they could do mine in time now would be to sign me off without checking me, and apparently they did that 3 years ago, and shouldn't do it twice in a row, according to them.

I'm not the worst case of this I've come across, my mechanic has a customer who turned 70 in April of this year, it is now mid October, and he's still waiting.