Untaxed Vehicle / DVLA

[egomeister]

Yes, it's another DVLA/SORN topic.

I've just received a "Untaxed vehicle" notice on a car I have in one of the allocated parking spaces for my flat. The vehicle is SORN'd, so I'm guessing that the DVLA enforcement people have decided that being near a road if close enough...

I have confirmed with my local council that as long as it is parked in my space it is not considered to be on the highway, however the DVLA inform me they have no mechanism of logging this preventing further enforcement.

Does anyone know what is likely to happen next? From what I understand I will likely end up with a fine that I'll have to appeal, or the enforcement team will be back with a wheel clamp or lowloader to take the vehicle away. Is there any way of preventing this happening (except taxing the car!)

[egomeister]

johnao said:

The Government website says..."Make a SORN (Statutory Off Road Notification) if you don't use or keep your vehicle on a public road, eg you keep it in a garage, on a drive or on private land."

An allocated parking space must be "private land" in anybody's language, including the DVLA's.

If you are the freeholder, you own the land; if you're the leaseholder, you lease the land; if you're a tenant you rent the land. What's not "private land" in any of that?

Yep, it's a marked space with my flat number on it - pretty obvious its not the road to most people.

And to the previous poster, no they can't add a flag to the reg, and yes they are pretty useless.

[egomeister]

Breadvan72 said:

The question is whether the car is on a "road repairable at the public expense". Is your space in a dedicated car park?

It's dedicated parking for the flats, and specifically called out on the deeds. I've spoken to the highways department at the council who have said that as far as they are concerned its a private space and nothing to do with them. They are confirming this in writing for me.

[egomeister]

Breadvan72 said:

I am therefore assuming that the space is not on a road*. You could write to the DVLA to assert this fact, and maybe stick a notice on the car to that effect.



* Although you haven't made this 100% clear.

Yep, its off the road. I was planning to stick a copy of the councils confirmation in the car when it arrives.

Pic below for clarity:

[egomeister]

And before anyone asks.... MX5 (as if you didn't already know!)

[egomeister]

Breadvan72 said:

In that case, to the crusher with it!

Probably the best place for it hence its SORN status, but I'd like to be the judge of that rather than an overzealous DVLA employee!

[egomeister]

Red Devil said:

It's not the DVLA you need to worry about. It's their trigger happy sub-contractor goons NSL.
Their definition of 'curtilage' and 'dwelling place' may be somewhat at odds with yours.
The sting is in the words 'other public place'. This is much wider than 'road'.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/1120/conte...

Note that any marking in the parking space is not of itself conclusive.
You need to be particularly careful if your flat is leased from a Housing Association.

Indeed, I get the impression that these contractors operate on the same guilty until proven innocent basis as TV licensing.

The spaces are called out on the deeds for the property - surely this makes it no different to a driveway? I appreciate that visually its a different proposition, but fundamentally the principles behind it should be the same?

The flat is leasehold but the land owner is private, not a Housing Association.

[egomeister]

Thread update time!

A letter has arrived from the DVLA this morning... pay £107 to settle or we'll take you to court.

Looking at the letter it's very vague what should be done if you wish to challenge the allegation (guilt is presumed!). Unfortunately you don't seem to be able to call a human using the number provided.

I'd assume that as I wish to challenge the offence, I reply to the letter with my "relevant information/supporting documents" and without a cheque for the fine (sorry, I mean out of court settlement). Does anyone know if this would close the door to their settlement offer, and require me to go to court to argue my case or would the info be appraised by the DVLA and the offer still stand if they rejected it?

[egomeister]

Breadvan72 said:

If you reject an offer then it no longer stands, but it would be open to DVLA to renew the offer if it wished.

Just write a polite letter setting out the facts. That could be the end of it. It was when I received such a demand from the DVLA.

Thanks BV, that's what I'm planning to do (copies taken, and sent signed for of course!)

[egomeister]

PS. Anyone want an MX5?

[egomeister]

Thread update...

Result! DVLA have decided no further action will be taken - thank you to everyone who offered advice.

[egomeister]

speedking31 said:

55palfers said:

egomeister said:

however the DVLA inform me they have no mechanism of logging this preventing further enforcement.

In 2014 the DVLA can't put a flag on a Reg No.? They really are useless.

To be fair; it's a combination of reg. number and where the vehicle is.

True, but the people on the phones had no ability to put any notes against the reg so I fully expect that if I leave the car there I'll end up with another letter - the ability to add a note along the lines of "allocated parking not part of highway - check" could be useful.

The DVLA call centre operators were pretty hopeless - they didn't seem to have the ability to do anything at all. They were unable to even tell me what their process of enforcement was. Until I received the letter from them I had no idea whether the next step was letter, clamp or tow away. When I got frustrated that they couldn't explain their own processes, they hung up... (for clarity, I didn't swear or get aggressive!)

[egomeister]

Very interesting info there red devil.

In my case if you follow the flowchart in the operating instructions its clear that they did not check with the local authority as they should have, and it is clearly numbered as a designated space for a dwelling. Given it has my flat number on there was nothing stopping them knocking on the door and checking with me either...

It's very irritating that when you add up the time taken to prepare my defence and get it sent off to them it's ended costing me almost as much in lost earnings as it would have to pay up.

[egomeister]

Red Devil said:

Re your last sentence: where anything to do the the motorist is concerned 'the system' in all its forms is deliberately skewed to engender such thoughts/conclusions. Because the majority of people would rather opt for the path of least resistance and roll over 'the system' continues. In fact 'TPTB' are continually looking for creative ways to expand it.

Me, I refuse to be browbeaten. I guess I get it from my father. He taught me not to give in where I had a genuine belief that I was in the right. He also taught me look within and not to cheat when making that decision. I try to arm myself with knowledge by doing my own research; where I can't, to ask others with greater knowledge/expertise; and return the favour whenever possible.

The learning process is never ending.

It's not just the motorist, TV Licensing operate in the same manner. Like you, I dislike being bullied by "the system" so had no intention to give in easily.

I find it quite disturbing that you can be dragged into something like this, but no-one can tell you the rules of the game you are playing unless you produce a FOI request...