Dangerous dog, advice needed please
Discussion
Hi all, This doesn't directly involve me, but it might do if my fears are realised.
Next door neighbour has a Bull Mastiff,lovely looking animal, but very aggressive to all except it's own family. It does have a habit of literally trying to demolish the fence between their garden and the neighbour on the other side. This has been going on for the two years that I've lived here. Said other neighbour had a dog, a dog I'd known for the time that I've been here, and know it to have been a soppy thing, getting on in years and totally laid back. No bother to anyone even on the odd occasion it got out.
......Removed incorrect information.......please see update below
We have a small terrier, who barks at anything, and naturally my immediate concerns are surrounding our dog's safety in our own garden. Further to this, my 7yo daughter plays with the daughter of the neighbour who's dog was attacked. We encourage our kids to be outside, even if in the relative safety of our own gardens, but following recent events I'm rather concerned to put it mildly.
Can anyone offer some words of advice regarding what to do next?
ETA, I do speak to the neighbours, but haven't spoken to them yet. To be honest I don't know how to get across my concerns without "demanding" they do something to reign the dog in.
Next door neighbour has a Bull Mastiff,lovely looking animal, but very aggressive to all except it's own family. It does have a habit of literally trying to demolish the fence between their garden and the neighbour on the other side. This has been going on for the two years that I've lived here. Said other neighbour had a dog, a dog I'd known for the time that I've been here, and know it to have been a soppy thing, getting on in years and totally laid back. No bother to anyone even on the odd occasion it got out.
......Removed incorrect information.......please see update below
We have a small terrier, who barks at anything, and naturally my immediate concerns are surrounding our dog's safety in our own garden. Further to this, my 7yo daughter plays with the daughter of the neighbour who's dog was attacked. We encourage our kids to be outside, even if in the relative safety of our own gardens, but following recent events I'm rather concerned to put it mildly.
Can anyone offer some words of advice regarding what to do next?
ETA, I do speak to the neighbours, but haven't spoken to them yet. To be honest I don't know how to get across my concerns without "demanding" they do something to reign the dog in.
Edited by Amused2death on Monday 17th November 15:52
Edited by Amused2death on Monday 17th November 17:15
Right, I've just got back from the neighbour who's dog died. He's told me the following:
His dog was attacked in the street outside our homes, his dog wasn't on a lead, but is old and can't walk far let alone run.
Next door neighbour was out with his two dogs returning from walking them. One a Bull Mastiff (uncertain if actually a BM, but very similar to in size and shape), the other a Black Lab. BM definitely on a lead, uncertain if Lab running free or slipped it's lead. Lab attacks elderly dog, neighbour comes running with BM on lead, then when within range BM joined in the attack. Neighbour unable to control both dogs so retreats with BM to hold him off the attack. Neighbour with elderly dog wades in trying to separate dogs, eventually after several boots to the Lab they separate them. Elderly dog taken to vets, patched up and given painkillers. Condition of dog deteriorates over the next 48 hours, decision made to put dog to sleep to end further suffering.
Those are the facts of the attack itself, further to this when in their own garden both of the neighbours dogs observed throwing themselves at the fence attempting to get into elderly dog's garden. Both dogs have been seen occasionally running free after escaping out the front somehow. Apparently during the summer there was a time when neighbour felt safer in their own home rather than in their garden because of free running dog.
As mentioned in original post, I'm concerned for our own dog, and more importantly our children. I know it's an owner problem rather than directly a dog one, but what can I do? It's now known the dogs are dangerous, but they haven't attacked our dog or daughter....yet. Call me paranoid if you like, but I think it's a question of when, not if, it happens again and I'll have done nothing wrong other than allow my daughter to play with their friend either in our own garden, or her friends.
His dog was attacked in the street outside our homes, his dog wasn't on a lead, but is old and can't walk far let alone run.
Next door neighbour was out with his two dogs returning from walking them. One a Bull Mastiff (uncertain if actually a BM, but very similar to in size and shape), the other a Black Lab. BM definitely on a lead, uncertain if Lab running free or slipped it's lead. Lab attacks elderly dog, neighbour comes running with BM on lead, then when within range BM joined in the attack. Neighbour unable to control both dogs so retreats with BM to hold him off the attack. Neighbour with elderly dog wades in trying to separate dogs, eventually after several boots to the Lab they separate them. Elderly dog taken to vets, patched up and given painkillers. Condition of dog deteriorates over the next 48 hours, decision made to put dog to sleep to end further suffering.
Those are the facts of the attack itself, further to this when in their own garden both of the neighbours dogs observed throwing themselves at the fence attempting to get into elderly dog's garden. Both dogs have been seen occasionally running free after escaping out the front somehow. Apparently during the summer there was a time when neighbour felt safer in their own home rather than in their garden because of free running dog.
As mentioned in original post, I'm concerned for our own dog, and more importantly our children. I know it's an owner problem rather than directly a dog one, but what can I do? It's now known the dogs are dangerous, but they haven't attacked our dog or daughter....yet. Call me paranoid if you like, but I think it's a question of when, not if, it happens again and I'll have done nothing wrong other than allow my daughter to play with their friend either in our own garden, or her friends.
Anonamoose said:
Not sure you can really blame the BM for this. Your neighbour can report the Labrador but the BM only joined in when dragged close enough by his stupid owner. If you were dragged into a fight would you stand there or would you join in to protect yourself? It's instinctive.
The owners are clearly not that bright but it could have been the aggressive lab causing the BM to be aggressive as well. Still unfortunate that it happened, they should have been on secure leads but no point losing both dogs if only one is to blame.
Hence the comments about BM being on a lead. Sadly the fact remains the attack did happen, and my concerns still remain. Given the facts above (And god knows I wish they weren't true), what can I do about it?The owners are clearly not that bright but it could have been the aggressive lab causing the BM to be aggressive as well. Still unfortunate that it happened, they should have been on secure leads but no point losing both dogs if only one is to blame.
Anonamoose said:
You can't get rid of the BM just because you are scared of the breed. Your neighbour can report the lab attacking his dog but that's all. You can't make your neighbour get rid of his dogs and unfortunately unless the dog does someone or some animal damage then the law can't either. The lab might get PTS on court order but doubt the BM would.
Make your fence stronger, put some chicken wire or something up as an extra precaution if you think it's that bad, make sure your dog is on a lead when walked and cross the road if need be to stay out of what of the other dogs if they are out being walked. Keep your daughter out of neighbours garden although they might not be bothered now the dog has sadly gone.
You haven't said that they actually bother about your fence or your dog.
As I said, it hasn't affected us directly, but I'm concerned it may do at some point. I'm not scared of the breed,I totally agree it's not the fault of the dog, more of the owner, but the neighbour knows not to attack random people or animals. Their dogs don't, and when it has happened his actions, however well placed, served only to make a bad situation worse.Make your fence stronger, put some chicken wire or something up as an extra precaution if you think it's that bad, make sure your dog is on a lead when walked and cross the road if need be to stay out of what of the other dogs if they are out being walked. Keep your daughter out of neighbours garden although they might not be bothered now the dog has sadly gone.
You haven't said that they actually bother about your fence or your dog.
The fence situation on our side is a hedge on our side and a six foot panel pence on the neighbour's side of the hedge. The other side neighbour also has a six foot fence, but no hedge.
With regards to where my daughter plays, I'm concerned as much for my own garden space as much as her friends garden. Why should I have to fear for my daughter's safety in our own garden?
In terms of the aggressive dogs not bothering because the other dog is now dead.........How about if they take a dislike to our dog and start on our side? Telling me not to worry about it won't really cut it.
I don't want anybody to destroy any dog, to their owners they are pets, but to others they've shown to be very aggressive both in behaviour and actions.
It's not just as simple as destroy the dogs, I'm trying to remain impartial to the actual attack, but combine this with their aggressive nature in their own back garden leads me to question if there is anything I can do to ensure the safety of my own. I appreciate your comments regarding making my boundaries stronger, but even that will only get me so far. It won't change the dog's nature. Am I supposed to check outside my own front door to see if I can allow my daughter out, perhaps I should follow her with a shotgun...you know just in case like?
StuntmanMike said:
Why are you afraid of the BM when the Lab killed the other dog, you have not once mentioned your scared of the Lab, why do people do this?
Who said I was afraid of the BM? I said I was concerned about the safety of my daughter and our dog, as much in our garden as in her friends. I did not witness the attack on the dog, but have gone to great pains to ensure the facts as told to me are accurately presented, and outlined my concerns because of this. I've heard the dogs throwing themselves at the neighbours fence and assumed it was the BM. Initially it was, but the Lab has learnt this trait and behaves in a similar fashion.Look, I've got a dog, I like dogs, I don't fear them. I am a concerned person and I feel my concerns are valid. I'm asking for advice on any approach to this that will help to alleviate those concerns. Though I must admit I now leave a garden fork just outside my back door and will have no hesitation in using it however I see fit if something should happen that involves their dogs and my garden.
ETA...The lab initiated the attack, the BM jumped in when within range........Perhaps I should retitle the post to "Dangerous dogs, advice needed please"
Please don't think I'm jumping on the big scary dog bandwagon, I'm not, but surely my concerns regarding their behaviour have merit? Or should I really just "Keep my nose out of it as it hasn't affected me"?
Edited by Amused2death on Monday 17th November 18:47
9mm said:
Why not talk to the Police first and get their view on things? I think you need to be clear about what you are trying to achieve before you do anything substantive. I understand your concerns but I'm less clear about what precisely you want to achieve. You say you don't want a dog destroyed but you are concerned about your dog's and daughter's safety, so what needs to happen to alleviate that concern? Once you get specific then I think you'll get suggestions about the best way of achieving what you want.
What I do know is I want my daughter and dog to be able to go in and enjoy our own garden in relative safety, I do what I can to ensure that happens, I don't know what to do, hence the request for advice, legal or otherwise. What I don't know is how I can achieve this considering what I've already posted.
Up until now it hasn't worried me, but after the dog attack last week, which would suggest that these dogs are aggressive, I now have concerns. I've mulled it over in my head for a day or two, and now I'm posting here.
I'm grateful for all your thoughts.
Edited by Amused2death on Monday 17th November 19:05
Jasandjules said:
Ok they are trying. I would ask the owner of the dogs to put another line of fencing inside their boundary to reinforce the fences for starters.
I would also tell them that you are sorry but if their dog gets into your garden you will do something about it and if it so much as looks at you funny you will call the police to have it destroyed. Now, you might not do that, BUT if they think you will, they might do something about their dogs.
I'd also make it clear you have dogs and you like dogs, you feel absolutely forced into this situation because you are worried about your child and pets.
I know it's an owner issue rather than a dog one, I am genuinely appreciative of your thoughts. Thank you.I would also tell them that you are sorry but if their dog gets into your garden you will do something about it and if it so much as looks at you funny you will call the police to have it destroyed. Now, you might not do that, BUT if they think you will, they might do something about their dogs.
I'd also make it clear you have dogs and you like dogs, you feel absolutely forced into this situation because you are worried about your child and pets.
7mike said:
As un-PH as it is to suggest someone in the public sector may be of use but; have you considered discussing this with your local dog warden. They may even be more knowledgeable about relevant legislation than a bunch of blokes on the internet 
I think a speculative phone call might be in order tomorrow, your idea seems like a good place to start, thanks.Will be speaking again tomorrow to the owner who's dog died, we get on well, and he's fully aware it's an owner that is at fault. If he's in agreement I'll be calling the local dog warden in the first instance and see where, if anywhere, that takes us.
Thanks for all your opinions and advice, I'm grateful, and I'll update accordingly.
Thanks for all your opinions and advice, I'm grateful, and I'll update accordingly.
keslake]mused2death said:
We have a small terrier, who barks at anything, and naturally my immediate concerns are surrounding our dog's safety in our own garden.
As another Bullmastiff owner i have to ask if your dog is maybe provoking the aggressive behaviour of the other 2 in any way?.
The reason i ask is that my dog has been attacked 5 times now, 3 by Staffs and the other 2 by terriers and i do know
the smaller breeds can be feisty little buggers, especially terriers, although quite what they hope to achieve in attacking a 150lb dog is quite beyond me, it's like Richard Hammond starting a fight with Lennox Lewis!.
In all seriousness, if male dogs are in adjoining gardens, each one will be protecting it's territory and maybe that was the case with the neighbour.
Dogs don't have to see each other through a fence, they just know the other one is there.
There is a whole world of difference between standing there barking and throwing yourself at the fence to get at what's on the other side. The tone and intensity is enough to know the attitude of the neighbours dog's is substantially different to ours.As another Bullmastiff owner i have to ask if your dog is maybe provoking the aggressive behaviour of the other 2 in any way?.
The reason i ask is that my dog has been attacked 5 times now, 3 by Staffs and the other 2 by terriers and i do know
the smaller breeds can be feisty little buggers, especially terriers, although quite what they hope to achieve in attacking a 150lb dog is quite beyond me, it's like Richard Hammond starting a fight with Lennox Lewis!.
In all seriousness, if male dogs are in adjoining gardens, each one will be protecting it's territory and maybe that was the case with the neighbour.
Dogs don't have to see each other through a fence, they just know the other one is there.
I take your point that ALL dogs have the potential to be dangerous, and as you say, as far as you are concerned BM's are lovely family pets and a terrier like ours is as you put it, feisty. No one wants to think their dog would attack, but that's what they would do if not suitably trained. The behaviour of the next doors dogs would indicate they haven't been suitably trained. Now if they do get loose then we already know trying to call them off is pointless, they don't listen. They have shown themselves to be aggressive. This, to me, indicates that there is a problem.
If we ignore the fact that I have a dog, I'm still concerned for my daughter...and anybody else nearby.
Jasandjules said:
OP you do understand that your dog is "out of control" in that it is barking at next door? If someone was standing the other side of a fence and threatening you (which is what your dog is doing) what do you expect to happen?
Unless of course your dog is sweet and innocent until the other dogs start attacking the fence?!?
But if your dog goes out barking his head off, he is starting things off...
I sort of agree with that, but our dog comes to recall as required which would suggest that at the very least we have control of our dog. However it wasn't my dog that was attacked. Our dog cannot get out of our garden. I'm bothered about next doors dogs getting in our garden and the possible consequences if my daughter is playing there.Unless of course your dog is sweet and innocent until the other dogs start attacking the fence?!?
But if your dog goes out barking his head off, he is starting things off...
Perhaps I shouldn't allow my daughter out to play?
Irrespective of whether or not we have a dog, the neighbour has dogs which are now known to be aggressive, that bothers me because of reasons already outlined.
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