Speeding and insurance question (issue!)

[Joe5y]

First speeding ticket in 10+ years of driving - doh!

About a month ago I was caught speeding in a friends car - bang to right's it was me. He got the NIP called me and without hesitation told him my details to send back; which he did. I then in turn received the NIP, now addressed to me through the post which I duly returned with all the correct details and my signature.

However;

I borrowed the car using my own insurance which I am covered to drive others cars 3rd party which is fully paid up in full until July 2015 - fine.

When sending the NIP addressed to me back it came with a separate A4 notice stating that I or the RK may be required to provide proof of insurance on the day of offence. With this in mind and in preparation for this I called my insurance company to get a copy of my documents as eSure don't send them via e-mail. This is where things went down hill. They wouldn't send me anything, and here is why.

Now before I say this, stupidity and naivety is no defense and I am not looking for a way around this, I am simply looking for and understanding as to what is likely to happen.

Having sold my car in October I duly told my insurance company that I had done so and at the same time the new RK told his that he had bought the car before he drove off. My options were to cancel my policy or take my old car off and keep the policy until I buy a new car and they will refund me / I pay the difference depending on the car. It actually turns out that my insurance is in a dormant state - suspended, until I buy a new car which I am yet to do. Nothing was explained to me about it being suspended and effectively a non-usable insurance policy.

Now again stupidity, naivety and assuming isn't a defense so what is likely to happen?

Do they check insurance on the driver?

Do they ask for documentation?

[Joe5y]

Durzel said:

Joe5y said:

Do they check insurance on the driver?

Do they ask for documentation?

They might. Whether they will is in the lap of the Gods.

I would suggest that if the matter was a straightforward one for them - i.e. no one is contesting the offence or making a song and dance about calibration certificates, evidence, ACPO guidelines and the like - that it would proceed without any additional enquiries being made. After all, they will have their conviction, someone will be punished, and that's that.

I guess this is what I am hoping for however if it does go the other way then it I will be honest about all and take the punishment on the chin.

Durzel said:

Obviously if they do start asking for this stuff there's not a lot you'll be able to do about it anyway, so don't see why it's worth worrying about that bridge until you have to cross it.

Sort of the stance I am taking - the Wife is another story however! Any idea on the guidelines of such an offence?

[Joe5y]

LoonR1 said:

What's happened is the OP has decided to play clever and drive probably a much higher value car for a while and has been caught out.

Maybe everyone thinks that an OP has something to hide but I'm giving you the facts.

No cleverness about it. The car I had and sold was worth 3, maybe even 4 times as much as the car I borrowed from a friend. Reason for borrowing, not that it is relevant, was that I was doing a 400 mile round trip and I didn't want to do it in a van.

[Joe5y]

LoonR1 said:

speedking31 said:

eally? Or a high cancellation fee with little time left on the policy, OP thinks he's buying a new car soon so why cancel? We don't all know every nuance of the insurance game. He'd paid the premium, what was he getting in return?

A better question. What was he insuring? Why lay a premium to I sure something you no longer own. The terms are clear if you want to read them, of course most don't. I bet his cancellation fee isn't that high as they tend not to be nowadays unless you're with a broker on a niche product.

He bought a policy in July 2014 and paid in full. He then sold his car in Oct 2014 so 3-4 months of cover. You think he's going to get a cancellation charge equivalent to 8-9 months premiums? I doubt it. Maybe you think he's avoiding paying any cancellation fee no matter what size? Well I'd suggest that the premiums he's wasted since Oct (3-4 months) is a pretty hefty amount.

What's happened is the OP has decided to play clever and drive probably a much higher value car for a while and has been caught out.

I did in fact buy another car which after finding out how many issues it had - an S2k, I punted it on. I have always been meaning to buy another car but circumstance, for a variety of reasons haven't allowed and although still on the hunt I am still no closer to getting a car I require which at the moment, for the short journeys that I do doesn't warrant a car, like I had before.

[Joe5y]

BertBert said:

Caught out by loon OP? Telling stories on PH? Or is he mistaken?

Option 3.

Unfortunately for me this scenario is exactly what I am currently having to deal with much to the wife's (and my) dismay.

[Joe5y]

ZOLLAR said:

OP was the insurer one of the Admiral group?

I think that I mentioned in the original post that it was eSure - not sure if they are a part of the Admiral group however? Howcome?

[Joe5y]

ZOLLAR said:

Joe5y said:

ZOLLAR said:

OP was the insurer one of the Admiral group?

I think that I mentioned in the original post that it was eSure - not sure if they are a part of the Admiral group however? Howcome?

Ah right no Esure aren't part of them, Admiral allow you to suspend your cover if you have sold the vehicle rather than cancel.
They would have made it very clear that it was suspended with additional cover such as DOC not in force.

With regards to your problem I suggest trying to keep your head down police wise, accept the fine and points with no fuss.
When I got my SP30 they didn't require proof of insurance and I was caught at 42 mph so unless you give them cause to investigate you further you may well be ok, just don't go using DOC so flippantly safer to get proper cover than using DOC if you're driving the distance you were.

When I called to address my options I had the option of either cancel outright or "remove the sold vehicle and keep the policy until I buy a new car and you will receive a refund for the time elapsed. But there will be an amendment fee".

Whether suspension was mentioned or not I am pretty certain I wasn't made aware that I wouldn't be covered at all anymore. However the point of this post wasn't to find a way out or contest my innocence (or not) I merely wanted to find out what I was likely to receive as punishment. And also what the process is when it comes to what is investigated when speeding fines occur as I am new to this

As for DOC, as soon as I found out I was uninsured I made sure that I got adequate cover even though I use the car so infrequently if at all.

[Joe5y]

LoonR1 said:

Joe5y said:

When I called to address my options I had the option of either cancel outright or "remove the sold vehicle and keep the policy until I buy a new car and you will receive a refund for the time elapsed. But there will be an amendment fee".

Whether suspension was mentioned or not I am pretty certain I wasn't made aware that I wouldn't be covered at all anymore. However the point of this post wasn't to find a way out or contest my innocence (or not) I merely wanted to find out what I was likely to receive as punishment. And also what the process is when it comes to what is investigated when speeding fines occur as I am new to this

As for DOC, as soon as I found out I was uninsured I made sure that I got adequate cover even though I use the car so infrequently if at all.

Here's the esure policy booklet. You get one of those when you buy a policy with them

http://www.esure.com/wcm/groups/public/documents/w...

Page 21 section 9 it's very clear what suspending your policy means. Either full suspension or suspend everything bar fire amd theft cover. Both of those mean DOC is clearly not an option anymore.

Which I now understand. This said, at no point did I ask for it to be or was I told that it was 'suspended'.

As stated I am not trying to deny that I was in the wrong however naive, stupid or assumptive I was - merely looking for an understanding of whats to come.

You seem to be upset with my honest, yet ridiculously stupid mistake and the fact I am looking for some advice?

[Joe5y]

LoonR1 said:

Joe5y said:

I did in fact buy another car which after finding out how many issues it had - an S2k, I punted it on. I have always been meaning to buy another car but circumstance, for a variety of reasons haven't allowed and although still on the hunt I am still no closer to getting a car I require which at the moment, for the short journeys that I do doesn't warrant a car, like I had before.

Wow. A car that you've not mentioned before miraculously appears.

"but didn't bother telling us about the car you subsequently bought."

Special brownie points for picking that car though, I'm sure PH will side with you now.

It hasn't miraculously appeared, it isn't relevant to the conversation or issue.

And I didn't subsequently buy it. If it must be known, and I may have to correct a single word in my original post, I owned and sold both cars. I owned both and insured both, then I sold one and then I sold the other.

[Joe5y]

LoonR1 said:

This is just brilliant.

Thank you.

LoonR1 said:

Did you own them together or one after the other? You're not clear on that.

Technically a 2 day cross-over.

LoonR1 said:

You're not clear on that.

Sorry.

LoonR1 said:

If one at a time, then why mention the first car and not the second?

Why is it needed? Whether I sold 20 cars I still only had one that I sold last and didn't replace and therefore informing my insurance company.

LoonR1 said:

If both together then how did you get a policy with Esure as they don't do multi car policies?

N/A

[Joe5y]

LoonR1 said:

So you told us about one car but not the S2000. Sorry, but you're not making sense and stuff just keeps being mentioned to support your case

I also haven't told you that I own 3 vans a digger and pulled out of buying a car in November.

You're searching for something that isn't there.

Running through every minor detail that isn't relevant to the issue and will only confuse things further. Simply, I have insuranc, sold the car, insurance company suspended my insurance meaning I was uninsured to DOC, I assumed (wrongly) I could still DOC, subsequently found out I couldn't - goes on PH for advice ends up speaking with Tom Cruises faithful.

Whilst I appreciate your input I fear you are being a conspirisist looking for something that isn't there.

[Joe5y]

Jon1967x said:

Do you not have insurance on the 3 vans that gives you cover?

Sadly not as these are commercial only.

Jon1967x said:

People want to help, but to do that they need info to understand what's really happened. The devil is in the detail and it's the detail that's not forthcoming. Just because you think it's irrelevant doesn't mean it is.

As much as I understand this the outcome is and would be the same if I had bought and sold 1, 2, 3 or even 4 cars and changed the insurance accordingly.

What the post was originally about was to gain a better understanding of the process of a NIP, sending it back and then the consequences of what I have now found out. I have answered all questions which have reveled information not relevant to the situation and then have had my honesty called into question like so many OP's on here - not a issue really as I have nothing to hide and as stated am not trying to get out of this scenario, merely trying to gain a better understanding of what is to come.