Help dealing with the estate of a deceased relative
Discussion
I'm in need of a bit of a leg-up from someone with experience in this area if possible.
I sadly lost my father at the weekend and am wading through the mire of trying to sort out his affairs.
He died without a will (intestate) and unmarried. I am his next of kin, no other children involved.
There is no property, car or other similar high value items to dispose of. Although I don't yet have access to the relevant paperwork I know there is personal debt which exceeds the value of any savings or goods and there is very unlikely to be any sort of insurance policy - he lived very much "in the now" and regarded insurance premiums as wasted money. I'm 99.9% sure that the estate is insolvent and won't even come close to covering the funeral costs, let alone repaying any creditors.
What I can't seem to get a clear answer on at the moment is whether I need "letters of administration". The CAB site says things like "may not" if "the amount of money is small" but there's no actual definition. I was hoping to be able to handle this side of things myself to save on the solicitors fees as it doesn't seem like a complicated estate to deal with - there's no money, no property, nothing of any real value in terms of personal possessions and no-one other than myself who would be in line to inherit anything.
Should I get proper legal advice or does this sound like a viable "DIY" process? Does anyone know for sure whether from the description I've given I will need letters of administration?
I was going to give the CAB a call when they open but needed to feel like I was doing something about it, PH legal beagles to the rescue?
I sadly lost my father at the weekend and am wading through the mire of trying to sort out his affairs.
He died without a will (intestate) and unmarried. I am his next of kin, no other children involved.
There is no property, car or other similar high value items to dispose of. Although I don't yet have access to the relevant paperwork I know there is personal debt which exceeds the value of any savings or goods and there is very unlikely to be any sort of insurance policy - he lived very much "in the now" and regarded insurance premiums as wasted money. I'm 99.9% sure that the estate is insolvent and won't even come close to covering the funeral costs, let alone repaying any creditors.
What I can't seem to get a clear answer on at the moment is whether I need "letters of administration". The CAB site says things like "may not" if "the amount of money is small" but there's no actual definition. I was hoping to be able to handle this side of things myself to save on the solicitors fees as it doesn't seem like a complicated estate to deal with - there's no money, no property, nothing of any real value in terms of personal possessions and no-one other than myself who would be in line to inherit anything.
Should I get proper legal advice or does this sound like a viable "DIY" process? Does anyone know for sure whether from the description I've given I will need letters of administration?
I was going to give the CAB a call when they open but needed to feel like I was doing something about it, PH legal beagles to the rescue?
Thank you, that tallies with what I just found after doing some more reading on the same site as the link paintman provided:
http://www.bereavementadvice.org/probate-and-other...
Not quite sure how I didn't find that before, I was on that site only yesterday, must have been a "can't see the wood for the trees" thing.
I'm much clearer on what I need to do now and it does seem like something I can easily cope with rather than paying someone else to do the running around. Thanks.
http://www.bereavementadvice.org/probate-and-other...
Not quite sure how I didn't find that before, I was on that site only yesterday, must have been a "can't see the wood for the trees" thing.
I'm much clearer on what I need to do now and it does seem like something I can easily cope with rather than paying someone else to do the running around. Thanks.
Thanks all - much appreciated.
We're not talking mega-money in terms of debts and it will all be unsecured personal credit or HP on things like a TV or freezer, a few grand at most. I am constantly amazed that anyone ever provided him credit, his financial history wasn't so much a car crash as it was a fully-fledged season of banger racing.
I think I've got the important bases covered now, funeral director is in place, post-mortem will be Thursday or Friday and I'll be sure to request extra copies of the death certificate. I'll take a list of everything of value in the flat and retain it.
Everything after that is just paperwork and making sure I join the dots properly.
We're not talking mega-money in terms of debts and it will all be unsecured personal credit or HP on things like a TV or freezer, a few grand at most. I am constantly amazed that anyone ever provided him credit, his financial history wasn't so much a car crash as it was a fully-fledged season of banger racing.
I think I've got the important bases covered now, funeral director is in place, post-mortem will be Thursday or Friday and I'll be sure to request extra copies of the death certificate. I'll take a list of everything of value in the flat and retain it.
Everything after that is just paperwork and making sure I join the dots properly.
That certainly puts a different complexion on things. I was planning to do "the right thing" by trying to deal with the creditors as I thought it was my responsibility to get it all tied up.
Seems that isn't the case at all and I might be making a rod for my own back.
From the advice on MSE it seems the safest thing to do is inform the creditors and bank of the death but tell them that I'm not administering the estate and don't know who is. Funny old world.
Seems that isn't the case at all and I might be making a rod for my own back.
From the advice on MSE it seems the safest thing to do is inform the creditors and bank of the death but tell them that I'm not administering the estate and don't know who is. Funny old world.
It depends exactly what you mean by that. The debts don't die as such, the creditors are entitled to be repaid from the estate. Effectively in my situation I believe the debts will have to be written off as there is nothing to pay them with.
From what I've been reading it seems to depend on the exact circumstance, I understand that in some situations the spouse can have to carry the can but you'll have to forgive me if that's not correct as it's not been the situation I've been focusing on.
I'm going to get the death certificate sorted out early next week and will also have access to his property at that point so I can find out exactly what the financial situation is. Once I know that I can decide whether it's something that I can safely deal with or not.
Again, thanks for all the comments and the condolences, they're genuinely appreciated.
From what I've been reading it seems to depend on the exact circumstance, I understand that in some situations the spouse can have to carry the can but you'll have to forgive me if that's not correct as it's not been the situation I've been focusing on.
I'm going to get the death certificate sorted out early next week and will also have access to his property at that point so I can find out exactly what the financial situation is. Once I know that I can decide whether it's something that I can safely deal with or not.
Again, thanks for all the comments and the condolences, they're genuinely appreciated.
Well, it's very much as I expected.
There is unsecured personal debt there in the region of £1.5k to a few creditors, all in the hands of various debt collection agencies. There are no assets of any sort and nothing of any value in his flat.
I'm therefore not going to be administering the estate, I don't need the hassle or the risk of doing it wrong. I'm going to write letters to the agencies involved informing them of the death, that there is no money and saying that I'm not administering the estate and don't know who is.
There is unsecured personal debt there in the region of £1.5k to a few creditors, all in the hands of various debt collection agencies. There are no assets of any sort and nothing of any value in his flat.
I'm therefore not going to be administering the estate, I don't need the hassle or the risk of doing it wrong. I'm going to write letters to the agencies involved informing them of the death, that there is no money and saying that I'm not administering the estate and don't know who is.
Just a quick update.
So far everything has been going to plan. The problems I've had have been mainly around the fact that what I'm doing is unusual and creditors are just following their usual automated process and firing me letters telling me to pay them from the value in the estate. Writing back telling them I'm not administering the estate results in great confusion on their part but so far no problems for me.
The hardest part was actually getting the funeral organised. Dad didn't want a funeral service or anything like that, he viewed the whole process as simply disposing of an empty vessel. Trying to find a funeral director who could comprehend, never mind implement, a funeral along those lines was quite challenging but in the end I found a direct cremation company who handled everything smoothly and at a minimum cost.
So, a thank you again for all the advice and sympathy. Hopefully things will be concluded within the next few months at most.
So far everything has been going to plan. The problems I've had have been mainly around the fact that what I'm doing is unusual and creditors are just following their usual automated process and firing me letters telling me to pay them from the value in the estate. Writing back telling them I'm not administering the estate results in great confusion on their part but so far no problems for me.
The hardest part was actually getting the funeral organised. Dad didn't want a funeral service or anything like that, he viewed the whole process as simply disposing of an empty vessel. Trying to find a funeral director who could comprehend, never mind implement, a funeral along those lines was quite challenging but in the end I found a direct cremation company who handled everything smoothly and at a minimum cost.
So, a thank you again for all the advice and sympathy. Hopefully things will be concluded within the next few months at most.
Don't forget about the DWP, if he was receiving a pension or any benefits then payments made after he passed away will need to be returned so these funds if received need to be held back.
In this situation I have found that phoning the bank or other company and asking for the bereavement department shows a different side of many companies though not all.
One other little tit bit of info, when my Gran died she passed away in Kent but with the family being from London we tried to register the death in Bromley which is part of Kent but being a London Borough is not Kent 'proper' so had to drive to Maidstone to register her passing..
In this situation I have found that phoning the bank or other company and asking for the bereavement department shows a different side of many companies though not all.
One other little tit bit of info, when my Gran died she passed away in Kent but with the family being from London we tried to register the death in Bromley which is part of Kent but being a London Borough is not Kent 'proper' so had to drive to Maidstone to register her passing..
Thanks all. Really sensible words about dealing with the loss, the concept of the gap/hole always being there but you work around it is certainly something I can relate to.
DWP etc should all be sorted, there is a "tell us once" service that apparently takes care of all of that and it seems to work well. They've not asked for any money back for his state pension or anything similar yet yet but if they do they'll get the same answer as all the others - I'm not administering the estate.
The funeral directors were a funny mix to be honest. A couple seemed genuinely appalled by the idea of what I wanted, a couple were genuinely helpful, but it was the ones who just didn't get it at all which were the oddest.
One national chain which advertises it's ethical approach blah blah blah were really helpful initially and said they could do exactly what I wanted - zero fuss, straight cremation, no ceremony, no mourners. Then they asked if the body was going to be embalmed - doesn't matter. Then they wanted to know what clothes to dress the body in - doesn't matter. Then they wanted to know if I'd like to "upgrade" the casket (none of them ever used the word coffin!). Then they reassured me that they'd cut his nails and make sure his hair was done nicely and I started to get a bit frustrated to be honest. When they quoted me nearly three grand and asked me if the hearse and two limos for mourners would be enough or if I wanted another limo at extra cost I'm afraid my frustration may have shown.
I ended up using these guys - http://www.simplicitacremations.co.uk/
They were very helpful and everything went smoothly. Cost all-in was £1050 including returning the ashes to me so that they can be scattered at a suitable spot.
We had a get-together for friends, family and carers a couple of weeks back and that went very well indeed. Everyone seemed to get a lot out of it and it was a genuinely nice occasion.
All this has really just cemented my dislike of conventional funerals. In my opinion they only serve to intensify the grief at an already very distressing time, but then I'm a cynical atheist. I imagine to people with faith it can actually be a great comfort but it's certainly not for me.
DWP etc should all be sorted, there is a "tell us once" service that apparently takes care of all of that and it seems to work well. They've not asked for any money back for his state pension or anything similar yet yet but if they do they'll get the same answer as all the others - I'm not administering the estate.
The funeral directors were a funny mix to be honest. A couple seemed genuinely appalled by the idea of what I wanted, a couple were genuinely helpful, but it was the ones who just didn't get it at all which were the oddest.
One national chain which advertises it's ethical approach blah blah blah were really helpful initially and said they could do exactly what I wanted - zero fuss, straight cremation, no ceremony, no mourners. Then they asked if the body was going to be embalmed - doesn't matter. Then they wanted to know what clothes to dress the body in - doesn't matter. Then they wanted to know if I'd like to "upgrade" the casket (none of them ever used the word coffin!). Then they reassured me that they'd cut his nails and make sure his hair was done nicely and I started to get a bit frustrated to be honest. When they quoted me nearly three grand and asked me if the hearse and two limos for mourners would be enough or if I wanted another limo at extra cost I'm afraid my frustration may have shown.
I ended up using these guys - http://www.simplicitacremations.co.uk/
They were very helpful and everything went smoothly. Cost all-in was £1050 including returning the ashes to me so that they can be scattered at a suitable spot.
We had a get-together for friends, family and carers a couple of weeks back and that went very well indeed. Everyone seemed to get a lot out of it and it was a genuinely nice occasion.
All this has really just cemented my dislike of conventional funerals. In my opinion they only serve to intensify the grief at an already very distressing time, but then I'm a cynical atheist. I imagine to people with faith it can actually be a great comfort but it's certainly not for me.
Just wanted to give a quick update.
As usual it got to the point where I assumed this was all sorted and then I got two letters in the space of a week.
One was from the DWP demanding repayment of an overpayment they made after they'd been notified of the death and the other was a new creditor coming out of the woodwork. They've both had the "nothing to do with me, sorry" letter.
The other creditors have either confirmed they've written off the debts or are hiding behind the DPA and won't communicate with me at all, which is just fine with me
Can't believe that nearly five months down the line I'm still getting new demands for repayment but I guess the wheels grind slowly. Wasn't great that they both arrived just before Father's day but s
t happens.
All in all though handling things this way has definitely been the easiest and best way for me. All I've had to do is write a few letters, I know they can't actually take anything from me so there is no stress on my part at all.
As usual it got to the point where I assumed this was all sorted and then I got two letters in the space of a week.
One was from the DWP demanding repayment of an overpayment they made after they'd been notified of the death and the other was a new creditor coming out of the woodwork. They've both had the "nothing to do with me, sorry" letter.
The other creditors have either confirmed they've written off the debts or are hiding behind the DPA and won't communicate with me at all, which is just fine with me
Can't believe that nearly five months down the line I'm still getting new demands for repayment but I guess the wheels grind slowly. Wasn't great that they both arrived just before Father's day but s
t happens.All in all though handling things this way has definitely been the easiest and best way for me. All I've had to do is write a few letters, I know they can't actually take anything from me so there is no stress on my part at all.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff