Arguments for raising the UK motorway speed limit

[Lil'RedGTO]

According to a 2014 RAC Report, 67% of those surveyed admitted breaking the motorway speed limit. 70% of those surveyed were in favour of increasing the motorway speed limit to at least 80mph.

http://www.rac.co.uk/pdfs/report-on-motoring/rac-r...

Given those figures, increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph should be a no-brainer for any politician, and the current Government did flirt seriously with the idea a couple of years ago before a change of Transport Minister appeared to put paid to the idea.

Given all that, it seems like it might be worthwhile writing to the relevant Minister, particularly after the upcoming election, just to remind him or her that there are people out there (of whom I am one) who would like to see this policy revived. I don’t really expect doing so will change anything, but it might act as some form of counterpoint to the loud voice of Brake on the topic, and might just make me feel a little better for having done something.

The question is, what are the points you would make when writing to the Minister urging him to consider increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph?

Points against, ideally with rebuttals, also welcome.

[Lil'RedGTO]

Can you explain why? For the avoidance of doubt, I am not proposing to set myself up as a one-man opposition to Brake. I'm just a citizen considering writing a letter to a politician.

[Lil'RedGTO]

That would seem to be one of the arguments in favour. 81mph in Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, France, Germany (on restricted sections), Greece, Hungary, Italy, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia and the Ukraine, with a limit of 87mph in Poland. The only countries with limits at or lower than the UK are Albania, Cyprus, Georgia, Iceland, Latvia, the Netherlands, Norway, and Russia.

[Lil'RedGTO]

Another solid point. A law which is not respected by (if the RAC figures are to be believed) more than two thirds of those subject to it is untenable and its continuing presence on the statute book brings the whole of the law into disrepute.

[Lil'RedGTO]

richcy said:

Lil'RedGTO said:

That would seem to be one of the arguments in favour. 81mph in Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, France, Germany (on restricted sections), Greece, Hungary, Italy, Lithuania, Slovakia, Slovenia and the Ukraine, with a limit of 87mph in Poland. The only countries with limits at or lower than the UK are Albania, Cyprus, Georgia, Iceland, Latvia, the Netherlands, Norway, and Russia.

Here in the Netherlands as of the end of 2012 (I believe) the default motorway speed limit was raised from 120 km/h to 130 km/h ;-)

That's interesting. I did not know that. A bit of googling suggests that they did a year long trial on eight stretches of Dutch motorway, which was presumably a success, although I can't readily see any reports of the formal results of that trial. It is often said that UK motorways are too congested to support higher limits but I doubt they are any more congested than Dutch motorways, given how densely populated the Netherlands is. I see that it is reported that the move was expected to shave around 1 per cent off journey times while raising an extra €50-€100 million a year for the government in fuel taxes. Rijkswaterstaat, the executive arm of the transport and infrastructure ministry, apparently calculated that the time savings were expected to boost the national economy by €75 million, and the Netherlands is a much smaller economy than the UK.

[Lil'RedGTO]

Type R Tom said:

Lil'RedGTO said:

Another solid point. A law which is not respected by (if the RAC figures are to be believed) more than two thirds of those subject to it is untenable and its continuing presence on the statute book brings the whole of the law into disrepute.

I don't think that is a workable, there are quite a few illegal activities out there committed by millions of people, doesn't mean that it should be dropped.

I can't think of any other crimes committed by two thirds of society. Littering perhaps, or dog fouling?

[Lil'RedGTO]

tapereel said:

Lil'RedGTO said:

According to a 2014 RAC Report, 67% of those surveyed admitted breaking the motorway speed limit. 70% of those surveyed were in favour of increasing the motorway speed limit to at least 80mph.

http://www.rac.co.uk/pdfs/report-on-motoring/rac-r...

Given those figures, increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph should be a no-brainer for any politician, and the current Government did flirt seriously with the idea a couple of years ago before a change of Transport Minister appeared to put paid to the idea.

Given all that, it seems like it might be worthwhile writing to the relevant Minister, particularly after the upcoming election, just to remind him or her that there are people out there (of whom I am one) who would like to see this policy revived. I don’t really expect doing so will change anything, but it might act as some form of counterpoint to the loud voice of Brake on the topic, and might just make me feel a little better for having done something.

The question is, what are the points you would make when writing to the Minister urging him to consider increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph?

Points against, ideally with rebuttals, also welcome.

Maybe you could just add in your real opinions on the limit; see this from Oct 2014:

Lil'RedGTO said:

mybrainhurts said:

Blakewater said:

If we lifted motorway speed limits tomorrow there would be lots of people thinking they can max out their cars and do 200mph carving through traffic doing 50mph.

I'd be interested to see your research. Or is that just your opinion?

Just my opinion, but I reckon it's more likely many people would do over the ton once, decide that it was a bit stressful and too bad on fuel consumption, and settle back down to a steady 80-90mph, much like some do now, but without being criminalised.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. On the hypothesis that limits were removed, my view (in October 2014 and now) is that I think it likely that speeds would not increase significantly beyond 80-90mph. However, I do not think there is a realistic prospect of limits being scrapped. I think there may be some prospect of the motorway limit being increased to 80mph, and am interested in the arguments for and against.

[Lil'RedGTO]

LoonR1 said:

The 67% is people who have admitted to breaking the motorway speed limit. It doesn't say that they always do it, or that they do it frequently, or that even occasionally, they may have only done it once, but still owned up to it. So the real question is can you think of a law that 67% people have broken once in their life?

I bet I've broken 100s of laws in my lifetime, and I bet there are plenty out there too who have similar track records. How many have sampled some form of illegal drug for example? Or stolen something , no matter how small? Should we get rid of those too?

Fair point, although I suspect that those who admitted to breaking the motorway speed limit have done so more than once and in fact do so with some regularity. I am not sure exactly how the question in the RAC survey was worded, but I get the impression it was along the lines of "Do you speed on the motorway?" Of course, the point about bringing the law into disrepute is just one argument. I am interested in all arguments, for and against.

[Lil'RedGTO]

I do have some concern that, with technology where it is, any move to increase the limit would be accompanied by some form of rigid enforcement. Better the devil you know?

[Lil'RedGTO]

Well, playing devil’s advocate, the two obvious ones are (a) the possibility of a slight increase in deaths and serious injuries as a result of the slightly higher speeds, and (b) increased emissions as engines work harder at higher speeds.

I’m not sure what the answer to (a) is, and it’s a tricky one as no politician wants to be seen to be responsible for a measure that leads to more death and injury and harping screams from Brake of “We told you so”. In theory higher speeds could lead to an increase in both the frequency and severity of accidents. It may be possible to point to other European nations with 80mph limits and observe that their death tolls are not that greater than ours, but if they are even slightly greater that is not particularly persuasive. I suppose one answer is to trial increased limits on a few motorways for a year or so and then compare accident rates, then we would know for sure. Another more controversial answer is that the economic benefits would outweigh the cost of the accidents, but again that is a hard sell for a politician.

As for (b), I suppose one answer is that cars are more efficient than ever and the current regime does not (and should not) prevent individuals from using more fuel if they choose as long as they are happy to pay the tax at the pump.

[Lil'RedGTO]

I personally think comparisons with other European countries are valid, given broadly similar cars and roads, and many of them seem happy with the compromise of 80mph. I don’t really buy this idea that continental motorways are SO much better or quieter than ours. Were those countries always 130kph/80mph or did they increase their limits at some point?

I agree that pollution and NOx is an obstacle, given recent consultations on REDUCING the speed limit to 60mph on a couple of motorways where local air pollution is a problem. Is it perhaps one that may be surmountable as older (early/mid-2000s) diesel passenger cars age off the market and/or are “fiscally disincentivised” off the roads?

The point about the haulage industry securing an increase to 50mph is an interesting one and offers a glimmer of hope. The argument that “everyone knew they were already defying the 40mph limit” is much the same point being made about the 70mph limit and it is about legalising existing widely prevalent behaviour.

I agree that there is a risk of bringing greater enforcement upon ourselves with an increased limit, but it may be going that way anyway. Indeed, if there is ever a genuine attempt to strictly enforce the motorway limit, that might itself prompt a public outcry and a review of the limit. I can see the argument for not prodding the hornet’s nest, however.

[Lil'RedGTO]

I imagine that the economic argument, which applies equally to private individuals, who are all economic agents, is probably the most important from the Government's perspective, if the safety concerns could be assuaged. Increasing the motorway speed limit would presumably bring economic benefits by reducing journey times, especially at off-peak times, meaning people spending less time travelling and more time being economically productive (whether working or spending money on leisure activities). Time saved might be small, but multiply it by millions and the sums are huge (see my earlier post on the projected figures for the Netherlands). Furthermore, these benefits could be reaped at little or no cost to the taxpayer, the Government having already spend billions on the motorway network and private individuals having already invested huge sums of money in buying private vehicles that are already capable of travelling safely at 80mph.

[Lil'RedGTO]

Well, I haven’t exactly been swamped by well-reasoned arguments for increasing the UK motorway limit to 80mph. Here was me naively hoping that a series of killer arguments would be forged in the crucible of SP&L, but aside from a nice Lord Buckmaster quote from agtlaw, I’ve got almost nothing except bickering over traffic flow dynamics. Anyway, here’s a draft letter to the Minister for Transport.

Dear Sir

MOTORWAY SPEED LIMIT

I am writing to urge you to seek Parliamentary approval to increase the motorway speed limit in England and Wales to 80mph. The current limit is an anachronism that has not been revised since it was set, as a temporary measure, in 1965. Since then, the active and passive safety of vehicles, and motorway design, have improved enormously, and a review of the 1965 limit is long overdue.

Although there are certain vocal pressure groups who have come out against an increase in the motorway speed limit, a report by the RAC in 2014 [footnote] found that 70% of ordinary drivers surveyed thought that the motorway speed limit should be increased to at least 80mph. Among experienced drivers [footnote] the proportion supporting an increase was 80%. There would appear to be a clear democratic mandate for an increase.

A limit of 80mph is hardly uncharted territory. A limit of 81mph (130kph) is the norm in the majority of our European neighbours, where it is the limit in Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, the Czech Republic, France, Germany (on restricted sections), Greece, Hungary, Italy, Lithuania, the Netherlands, Slovakia, Slovenia and the Ukraine, In Poland the limit is 87mph and Germany is of course well known for its unrestricted sections of motorway. The only European countries with limits at or lower than the UK are Albania, Cyprus, Georgia, Iceland, Latvia, Norway, and Russia. Not particularly good company for a leading European nation such as the UK to keep.

I will leave the detailed economic analysis to others more qualified than myself, but it seems logical that increasing the motorway speed limit would bring significant economic benefits by reducing journey times, especially outwith peak hours. When the Netherlands increased its motorway limit in 2012 from 120kph to 130kph, it was forecast by the Rijkswaterstaat, the executive arm of the transport and infrastructure ministry, that the time savings would boost the Dutch national economy by €75 million, and the Netherlands is a much smaller nation, and smaller economy, than the UK. The move was also expected to raise an extra €50-€100 million a year for the Dutch government in fuel taxes.

Furthermore, these benefits can be reaped at little or no cost. The money has already been spent to build an extensive motorway network. Private individuals have already collectively invested billions in private vehicles that are already capable of travelling safely and comfortably at 80mph. All that is required is a Parliamentary bill and the replacement of some signage.

It is not just a question of economic benefits, however. There is a more insidious problem with the 1965 limit. The RAC Report referred to above found that 67% of those surveyed admitted to breaking the current 70mph speed limit. I can think of no other law which is so widely and deliberately disregarded. The continuing presence on the statute book of a law which is disregarded by more than two thirds of those subject to it is completely untenable and brings the whole of the law into contempt.

Now I accept that some people have legitimate concerns about the impact increasing the motorway speed limit may have on the UK’s excellent road safety record. However, motorways, despite being our fastest roads, are our safest, accounting for only around 5% of fatalities, and car occupant safety technology continues to improve. I also accept that some people have environmental concerns about an increased motorway limit, as fuel consumption typically increases with speed. However, cars are becoming ever more efficient, such that cars today are often much more fuel efficient at 80mph than cars of merely [10?] years ago were at 70mph. [To be verified.] Ultimately, our system of fuel and vehicle taxation already incentivises fuel efficiency, and if certain individuals elect on occasion to experience higher fuel consumption in exchange for reduced journey times, that should rightly be their choice.

In light of these concerns, the prudent course, I would suggest, would be to trial an increased limit on certain motorways for a period of a year of more, and only to roll-out increased limits more widely if that trial does not produce a significant deterioration in road safety or environmental quality.

I would urge you to consider doing so.

Yours faithfully,