When does a car change owner, when the money's paid or...

[AndyDubbya]

...when it's actually picked up?

I'm selling a car, and the buyer transferred the money to me yesterday and is picking it up today. We haven't done the paperwork yet, V5, receipts etc, but I now consider it his and I'm not driving it today, it's safely tucked up in the garage.

What if it had been nicked overnight though? (It hasn't been, this is only hypothetical). Was his car nicked, or mine? Who would claim on their insurance, me or him? I've already paid the money out for my next car so I can't just pay him back.

Just thinking & interested, if any legal bods can answer. Ta in advance.

[AndyDubbya]

Vee said:

No idea of legal stance but it is your car until they collect. I'd consider transfer of ownership once payment has been made, paperwork completed and the vehicle collected.
obviously you want the money cleared before letting the car go, don't you ? So there will always be a period of time between that happening and collection.
Therefore it is your responsibility to look after the car for a reasonable amount of time until the buyer collects. I'd say less than 24hrs is reasonable. Suddenly saying it's stolen and 'not my problem guv' is not.

Why couldn;t they collect it last night if the money had cleared yesterday ?

We both wanted to be sure the money had cleared before they collected, tonight was the best time for collection for us both, so they set it up for yesterday to have a day's grace in case of cock-up.

Interesting selection of views though, seems like there's no definite consensus, although I can see the point of view that the deal isn't concluded til he takes it away.

Btw I'm happy to report it was still there this morning - it occurred to me that if it had been swiped overnight, my OP could've implicated me quite nicely!

[AndyDubbya]

Until the last few replies, I was thinking it was still mine til he collected, but now I'm thinking that as it wouldn't be right for me to sell it to someone else once he'd paid, it was his once the money was transferred, and (you could argue) maybe even as soon as we'd agreed terms.

Either way, he's just driven off in it with a big smile, so everyone's happy. Thanks for all the input, it's been interesting to hear all the different views.

[AndyDubbya]

Mopar440 said:

AndyDubbya said:

but now I'm thinking that as it wouldn't be right for me to sell it to someone else once he'd paid, it was his once the money was transferred,

So, had someone made you a better offer after you'd agreed to the sale, and payment was made and received by you?

Not sure what you're asking, but I wouldn't have reneged on the deal after we'd agreed terms (let alone after he'd paid up!), so by that measure, it was "his" from then on, at least in my mind. But what would've transpired insurance-wise if something had happened to the car after that, I still don't really know.

[AndyDubbya]

Wind your neck in old chap. "Normal" people, sheesh.

[AndyDubbya]

JustinP1 said:

Devil2575 said:

I couldn't care less about the legalities. Once his money was in my account I wouldn't sell it to anyone else for more money but if it was stolen/destroyed by fire I'd deal with the aftermath and claim off my insurance.
Sometimes normal people don't need to understand the legalities to know what is the right thing to do.

The point the OP I think is making is that if the car ceased to be his, the car would not be covered by his insurance.

So, if the garage burnt down, or he was the target of thieves, alright, the OP could keep shtum and forget that he'd been paid for it in full, and tried to get an insurance settlement, and refunded the buyer, but there'd be dishonesty there.

Where I think the answer lies is that whilst the exact point of formation of contract can be debated, when agreement to sell and payment is successfully received for the car, it could be argued that unless specifically agreed otherwise that this is the final point that the OP owned the car.

The OP would still have a duty of care to look after the vehicle though if it was agreed that collection would take place on a certain date.

So, the OP was exactly right not to drive the car, because if he had crashed it, this could have been seen as failing in his duty of care. Similarly, if he had parked it in a pub car park in Salford, and it got stolen, that may also be seen as a failure.

However, kept in a locked garage, this does demonstrate a very reasonable action.

Thanks for your excellent reply. I didn't have the patience to answer so clearly, but that is exactly what I was getting at.

[AndyDubbya]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

it's time we were a lot less polite

Yeah, that'll make the world a much better place

Thanks for the well-reasoned and politely-given replies. Seems to me like no-one knows for sure.