Speeding: 42 in a 30 on a test drive
Discussion
As per the title.
It is the first time I've been caught speeding but due to the circumstance I though I'd seek some advice from the members of PH...
Two weeks ago I went to test drive an A45 AMG, yes it is a nippy little car and at times you could quite easily slip above 30. The notice advises the offence was on Gatwick road, 42 in a 30 which is the road running past the dealership.
The sales man drove the car to start with, spanked it from the get go around the area until I got in the car. I started of with ease while getting used to a car I'm not familiar with so unlikely it was me speeding when leaving the dealer, then the route was A23, M23 and back.
There is a chance it could have been me when returning to the dealer but I'm thinking again unlikely as it's just off a round about and the camera was down the other end of the road (and i was aware it was there anyway).
So, bottom line is, it could have been either of us.
Any one been in a similar situation? As they can't prove who it was is it likely to be dismissed?
Next step is to just call the police tomorrow and explain the above?
It is the first time I've been caught speeding but due to the circumstance I though I'd seek some advice from the members of PH...
Two weeks ago I went to test drive an A45 AMG, yes it is a nippy little car and at times you could quite easily slip above 30. The notice advises the offence was on Gatwick road, 42 in a 30 which is the road running past the dealership.
The sales man drove the car to start with, spanked it from the get go around the area until I got in the car. I started of with ease while getting used to a car I'm not familiar with so unlikely it was me speeding when leaving the dealer, then the route was A23, M23 and back.
There is a chance it could have been me when returning to the dealer but I'm thinking again unlikely as it's just off a round about and the camera was down the other end of the road (and i was aware it was there anyway).
So, bottom line is, it could have been either of us.
Any one been in a similar situation? As they can't prove who it was is it likely to be dismissed?
Next step is to just call the police tomorrow and explain the above?
MitchT said:
I believe the owner or registered keeper of a vehicle has to declare who's driving if it's clocked breaking the limit. I guess it'll all depend whether the salesman's memory works in his favour or yours.
Well its a demo car so registered to the dealer. They would have received the notice first and automatically just forward it on. But it could have been either of us.Salesman will automatically deny but I'm not just going to accept when there is a very good chance it was him
No pic has been provided with the paperwork, i recall where the van was though and a mate who worked for BMW nearby said its there every 2/3 weeks, from where its located the picture will be of the rear of the car (if there even is a pic..).
I signed the test drive paperwork, then he had a nose at my car, he wanted me to take him in it (which i did), then we came back, jumped in the merc and he drove for some time.
So there is a good chance the time i signed the paperwork is a fair bit before the camera caught us
I signed the test drive paperwork, then he had a nose at my car, he wanted me to take him in it (which i did), then we came back, jumped in the merc and he drove for some time.
So there is a good chance the time i signed the paperwork is a fair bit before the camera caught us
KFC said:
Surely he's already denied it?
If he wasn't denying it, how did you end up receiving the paperwork? He's named you as the driver.
Which is what i said? He will automatically just deny, hence it has now ended up with me.If he wasn't denying it, how did you end up receiving the paperwork? He's named you as the driver.
But as there is a good chance it was him driving I'm not just going to hold my hands up and take the consequence
KFC said:
You've already went on record as not knowing if you were driving or not.
He's went on record as saying you were.
This may not have a good ending for you.
I've not go on a record of anything yet as it will be tomorrow when i take it up with the police who have issued it. So i could also flat out refuse i was driving or advise them it can be either of us - prove which.He's went on record as saying you were.
This may not have a good ending for you.
Otherwise with insufficient evidence drop the case
agtlaw said:
What do you mean by "just forward it on" - is your name and address on the notice/form?
Sorry, just mean they will receive, deny and so have it then resent to me. The letter is addressed to me (with name and address) as registered keep of the car (which I'm not). I could upload a picture of the letter if its any helpKFC said:
Do you mean apart from a forum post on the internet? Unless of course you're willing to perjure yourself.
yes..but I'm not going to email the link am i.... Even if i did, they would see that there is clearly no proof as to who was driving. My argument being it was likely to be him as i already knew the camera van was there...KFC said:
People have been done for perverting the course of justice before from stuff they've posted online.
You've already said what car you were driving, when you were driving it... your name is even in your profile
You've also said you've no idea if you were driving or not - do you not see how this potentially ends badly for you if you change your mind and say you know the salesman was driving?
The salesman was driving in that area...that's my point! You've already said what car you were driving, when you were driving it... your name is even in your profile
You've also said you've no idea if you were driving or not - do you not see how this potentially ends badly for you if you change your mind and say you know the salesman was driving?KFC said:
Risk and reward. Its a car forum... the person you were dealing with works in a car dealership. Perhaps he's seen this thread already.
On one hand you've got 3 points for a minor traffic offence; on the other you've got a prison sentence for lying about what happened.
Is it worth the risk?
But I haven't lied about what happened? I state it is unlikely it was me and likely for it to have been him because A) I took it easy due to not knowing the car and B) I knew the van was there, he did not.On one hand you've got 3 points for a minor traffic offence; on the other you've got a prison sentence for lying about what happened.
Is it worth the risk?
There is a chance it was me because at some point yes I drove the car. Again, I stated my test drive was up the A23 and M23 (offence caught on Gatwick road).
jith said:
Dear god, what is wrong with you people? Can't you read!
The person who could likely face a PCJ charge would be the salesman. He has named the OP as the RK and he didn't even buy the car! He clearly did it to get himself off the hook. The OP has a first class defence in the respect that this was a road test of a vehicle he showed an interest in. BOTH himself and the salesman were driving. That means it is up to the SCP to prove who was driving.
Both drivers in a situation like this can hold their hands up and say they don't know who was driving; this is completely reasonable and is not a cop out. If the photo or video doesn't show the driver they will have a hard job proving who it was.
Send the NIP back OP and make it crystal clear you are NOT the RK.
J
Thank you for a clear, helpful answer!The person who could likely face a PCJ charge would be the salesman. He has named the OP as the RK and he didn't even buy the car! He clearly did it to get himself off the hook. The OP has a first class defence in the respect that this was a road test of a vehicle he showed an interest in. BOTH himself and the salesman were driving. That means it is up to the SCP to prove who was driving.
Both drivers in a situation like this can hold their hands up and say they don't know who was driving; this is completely reasonable and is not a cop out. If the photo or video doesn't show the driver they will have a hard job proving who it was.
Send the NIP back OP and make it crystal clear you are NOT the RK.
J
Digitalize said:
Surely the direction of travel will prove which one it was? That's all the photo needs to show, however unless it shows a face it's still not exact.
Assuming you came back to the dealership, you could use their CCTV to prove the time you left and arrived, and work it out from that too.
If it cannot be proven by photo evidence and continued rather than dropped then CCTV would be an option yeah. Just depends what it captures as we switched outside of the dealer, just away from itAssuming you came back to the dealership, you could use their CCTV to prove the time you left and arrived, and work it out from that too.
Digitalize said:
At the very least it should show what time you arrived back? But then that's rubbish as unless the CCTV can show the salesman getting in, and you getting out, and there's no reasonable doubt that you switch before/after the camera, it would still be your word against his on who was driving.
Just checked my phone as i recall sending a text just after driving it. Text was sent at 14:15 to say "Just test drove the A45 AMG". The NIP advises the camera caught the car at 12:58. I Think i was only in the car 15/20minsSpangles said:
But I would have been in the car either way as I was A passenger with the sales guy driving. I'll have a nose at the link anyway though 
V8LM said:
Or be done for using a phone whilst driving too
I hadn't realized a mobile camera van could 'do' cars going away from them.
Did you miss the part where I said "after driving"?I hadn't realized a mobile camera van could 'do' cars going away from them.
Ofcourse I wasn't texting while driving...
I've checked and got a text to the GF at 13:35 just as I was walking back through the dealer. Camera caught the car at 12:58, I certainly wasn't driving the car for 35mins
Just used the google location thingy that someone gave the link to (thanks).
It shows:
First went off in the car (sales guy driving): 12:41-12:58
brief stop
Second trip in the car (me driving): 13:01-13:15
Time the camera caught us: 12:58 so it must have been when the sales guy was returning. I'll phone the police now and explain.
It shows:
First went off in the car (sales guy driving): 12:41-12:58
brief stop
Second trip in the car (me driving): 13:01-13:15
Time the camera caught us: 12:58 so it must have been when the sales guy was returning. I'll phone the police now and explain.
Sheepshanks said:
Hmmm...that now doesn't fit in with your other timings?
It's a bit rich for the salesman to just finger you without any contact with you first. And if the speed trap is well known he ought to have warned you.
I'd be minded to simply send it back with his name on it. I've seen these ping-pong and then go away. Or the dealer might get done for failing to provide the driver's name - but it'll probably be too difficult to figure out who the legally responsible person is, so likely nothing will happen as they tend to go for easy targets.
I first found the one at 14:15 but then found further texts which along with the google location has helped to piece it together as 14:15 was as i was leaving the dealerIt's a bit rich for the salesman to just finger you without any contact with you first. And if the speed trap is well known he ought to have warned you.
I'd be minded to simply send it back with his name on it. I've seen these ping-pong and then go away. Or the dealer might get done for failing to provide the driver's name - but it'll probably be too difficult to figure out who the legally responsible person is, so likely nothing will happen as they tend to go for easy targets.
11:42 - i arrived
12:41 to 12:58 - started with a brief two minute drive up the A23 and back in my car. From then the sales man drove the test car around the area of the dealership and returned along Gatwick road at 12:58 (time and location of being caught).
3 minute pause outside the dealer which is when I then hop in the drivers seat, adjust the seat, mirrors etc and get comfy.
13:01 to 13:15 - i test drive the car and can see on Google location this is the route I had taken (down the M23)
From 13:15 to 14:13 the location stays at the dealership, clearly because we just returned and were talking figures etc. I then leave at around quarter past two, just after sending the text.
This morning I have completed the reverse of the NIP, naming the salesman and will return via recorded delivery. I have also included a letter to state all that went on, provided a copy of his business card and also with a print out of Google location with certain times etc highlighted.
Have taken a photocopy of it all for my record.
andburg said:
I would be sending a copy to the dealership's manager as they have wrongly implicated you in this.!
Well i did wonder if it was worth calling and speaking to the manager about it, but perhaps easier to just let the police now make contact with them and do what they need to do?KFC said:
I can't be bothered explaining this again. The OP said he doesn't know who's driving. He's also suggesting saying he definitely wasn't driving. One of those is a lie. There are examples of people posting stuff on forums, and then getting in a huge amount of legal trouble over it. The bloke who posted about his mrs taking points, etc.
Its not that complicated is it. If you're going to lie or perjure yourself, try not to post a detailed account of it online first.
No I didn't say i definitely wasn't driving, I began by stating I feel it is unlikely to be me...UNLIKELY not IT WAS NOT me. Based on times, routes, how i drove etc.Its not that complicated is it. If you're going to lie or perjure yourself, try not to post a detailed account of it online first.
Now that I have seen a time log with routes, am confident it was the salesman upon returning to the dealership.
Yes, you do have a valid point regarding posting online and landing in trouble as a result, but I have not lied. What I have mentioned is exactly how it all is and I have said the same to the Police this morning over the phone and in a letter.
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