SOR customer service issues
Discussion
Hi all, wondering if you can help with some advice on the following.
In a nutshell I use an SOR company to sell some of my personal cars based on the periphery of the M25 without naming and shaming just yet. They advertised my car at the agreed SOR price and commission was agreed. The car was sold after approx 1.5 months and the purchaser collected the car, drove it home and on the way home the engine management light came on. I had driven the car for circa 7-9 months without the slightest issue before that point. Fine this may be bad luck some may say - agreed.
They bought the car back to their dealership and did some works which cost £280 odd, nothing too major. They delivered the car back to the purchaser at which point they paid me approx 80% of the monies and said the reminder would be paid once the buyer was happy. Given the 2-3 week period while this was all going on I agreed. Once the car was delivered back to the buyer all sorts of engine management lights etc came up and to cutt a long story short the dealership has had the car for almost 2 months while they have continued to do the works to rectify. Some may say on a used car this would be the end of the issue and it's the new owners issue from here onwards, but lets let that slide for a second.
Here is gets interesting. During the 2-3 weeks initially they never told me what was being done, why, how much it would cost and who would be accountable (new owner versus me the previous owner versus the dealership taking some of the fall for all the issues and delays). I had chased and chased and it has now become 2 months in total. Still no concrete answer from the dealership and no defainte costs of courstey to call/email me back after all the chasing to simply explaining what was happening and why. All of this is slowly leading up to me being worried the car would be handed over without confirmation to me on the costs of works or reason for them. I don't mind the costs (to a point), but more to manage my expectations. Nothing, all me chasing.
The car was handed over after I threatened to remove my other SOR from them, when magically I received some figures. Bare in mind this was a £40k sports car, not a Ferrari/hypercar etc) and the bill came to over £2,200 inc VAT!!! Surprise surprise the car was handed over without confirming to me as i had done in writing along with all of my other communication back to them. To spend £2k+ on a car and not inform the SOR seller is very poor in my opinion. Everything points to them handing the car over and then worrying about my costs, knowing I may not do anything more about it now the car has been handed over.
Now there is a bill of over £2k and my argument will be where is the customer service in explaining what was happening, why and how much the cost was. My opinion is they can't simply spend on MY car for the new purchaser WITHOUT consulting me. I appreciate things MAY have needed doing but thats my car and my funds they were holding on to. Its business courtesy and a lack of communication on their part.
The final straw came today when I called them and found out from the purchaser that they paid more for the car than I was charged. Ie they paid £X and I was told the car was sold for £X-£500!!! The commission they charged is seperate. Surely thats fraud?!
Thoughts on the above and what I should do?
In a nutshell I use an SOR company to sell some of my personal cars based on the periphery of the M25 without naming and shaming just yet. They advertised my car at the agreed SOR price and commission was agreed. The car was sold after approx 1.5 months and the purchaser collected the car, drove it home and on the way home the engine management light came on. I had driven the car for circa 7-9 months without the slightest issue before that point. Fine this may be bad luck some may say - agreed.
They bought the car back to their dealership and did some works which cost £280 odd, nothing too major. They delivered the car back to the purchaser at which point they paid me approx 80% of the monies and said the reminder would be paid once the buyer was happy. Given the 2-3 week period while this was all going on I agreed. Once the car was delivered back to the buyer all sorts of engine management lights etc came up and to cutt a long story short the dealership has had the car for almost 2 months while they have continued to do the works to rectify. Some may say on a used car this would be the end of the issue and it's the new owners issue from here onwards, but lets let that slide for a second.
Here is gets interesting. During the 2-3 weeks initially they never told me what was being done, why, how much it would cost and who would be accountable (new owner versus me the previous owner versus the dealership taking some of the fall for all the issues and delays). I had chased and chased and it has now become 2 months in total. Still no concrete answer from the dealership and no defainte costs of courstey to call/email me back after all the chasing to simply explaining what was happening and why. All of this is slowly leading up to me being worried the car would be handed over without confirmation to me on the costs of works or reason for them. I don't mind the costs (to a point), but more to manage my expectations. Nothing, all me chasing.
The car was handed over after I threatened to remove my other SOR from them, when magically I received some figures. Bare in mind this was a £40k sports car, not a Ferrari/hypercar etc) and the bill came to over £2,200 inc VAT!!! Surprise surprise the car was handed over without confirming to me as i had done in writing along with all of my other communication back to them. To spend £2k+ on a car and not inform the SOR seller is very poor in my opinion. Everything points to them handing the car over and then worrying about my costs, knowing I may not do anything more about it now the car has been handed over.
Now there is a bill of over £2k and my argument will be where is the customer service in explaining what was happening, why and how much the cost was. My opinion is they can't simply spend on MY car for the new purchaser WITHOUT consulting me. I appreciate things MAY have needed doing but thats my car and my funds they were holding on to. Its business courtesy and a lack of communication on their part.
The final straw came today when I called them and found out from the purchaser that they paid more for the car than I was charged. Ie they paid £X and I was told the car was sold for £X-£500!!! The commission they charged is seperate. Surely thats fraud?!
Thoughts on the above and what I should do?
Edited by JiggyJaggy on Monday 29th June 18:00
@ Chartljr: The SOR contract doesn't say anything. It is simply a sheet which documents the car, price, mileage etc etc and the commission amount.
@ Fridaypassion: It was a good car at a decent price, not so much a bargain. It was an R8 so Im assuming not enough of a margin for them to buy it and sell it on.
@Henry-F: We may have spoken a long time ago, a friend had a 911 (930) Cabriolet to sell and you kindly gave some good advice from memory. Thank you. I guess the thinking behind an SOR is that the dealership adds their value by inspecting the car and using their marketing and warranty/finance options to help with the sale of the car, ir to "enhance" the sale as someone stated.
Also my issue is not with the works needed doing to the car or how much, its the fact they didn't have the decency to tell me about the works or update me at any stage until they handed the car over and tried to stuff me
UPDATE:
Just found out that although they stated to me the car was sold for £40,500 I have spoken to the new owner who confirmed they purchased the car for £42,273 plus £1,000 warranty which in my eyes is fraud of £773! They have categorically stated that they have sold the car for £40,500 in writing. Quite worrying and this has really annoyed me.
@ Fridaypassion: It was a good car at a decent price, not so much a bargain. It was an R8 so Im assuming not enough of a margin for them to buy it and sell it on.
@Henry-F: We may have spoken a long time ago, a friend had a 911 (930) Cabriolet to sell and you kindly gave some good advice from memory. Thank you. I guess the thinking behind an SOR is that the dealership adds their value by inspecting the car and using their marketing and warranty/finance options to help with the sale of the car, ir to "enhance" the sale as someone stated.
Also my issue is not with the works needed doing to the car or how much, its the fact they didn't have the decency to tell me about the works or update me at any stage until they handed the car over and tried to stuff me
UPDATE:
Just found out that although they stated to me the car was sold for £40,500 I have spoken to the new owner who confirmed they purchased the car for £42,273 plus £1,000 warranty which in my eyes is fraud of £773! They have categorically stated that they have sold the car for £40,500 in writing. Quite worrying and this has really annoyed me.
JustinP1 said:
£42,273 plus a £1000 warranty means they kept £1773 of your money.
Sorry typo. I meant to write they sold the car for £41,273 hence they kept an additional £773. Ridiculous none the less. Lets see if they fess up in the next few days before I take the proof to the MD and my lawyer/small claims court. Graham said:
IMHO, you'd have to be a total fruit loop to sell a car through a dealer on SOR, You've only got to search through the forums here to see far to many tales of my car was sold and i ended up with no car and no money as the dealer went bust... there is a local place here who seem to do it every 2-3 years going bust with out paying for cars.. and yet still people do it with them. I amazed the guy running the firms hasnt ended up in the severn with a set of concrete wellies yet...
Selling wise they seemed OK. I had used them for my SOR's for the last 2-3 years and they have generally had good feedback up til now. PH5121 said:
If they sold a warranty with the car should they not bear some of the costs for the remedial works? Cake and eat it springs to mind!
They did not tell me they provide the car with a 3 month warranty nor did they til me openly that they sold a warranty to the new purchaser. Seemed another way to stuff me for over £2k of works... the saga continues and they seem more and more unscrupulous. They have just over £4,200 of the original monies and I now have an email from the purchaser confirming the actual amount they purchased the car for, compared to the price they claimed to have sold my car for.
I'm waiting for they reply first before I take a formal step. Happy to name and shame once I confirm what they have done and can prove it.
I'm waiting for they reply first before I take a formal step. Happy to name and shame once I confirm what they have done and can prove it.
JustinP1 said:
And there's nothing on the SOR sheet regarding who pays for what, and how quickly they pay you etc?
I'm just astonished that a company that sells high end second hand cars does not have proper paperwork.
In short, the default in your agreement would be that the dealer should pay you your money, in full, immediately, or at very least in a reasonably short time period.
Additionally, unless you agreed that you were paying for repairs for some period of time, I'd also dispute that it's your responsibility to pay for repairs at all. If the dealer wants to be a dealer, then I think they should be covering this cost.
My advice at this stage is to pay them nothing, and go an see a solicitor. My angle would be to formally request your money back in full in the next seven days, and reject that you are responsible for seemingly unlimited repair costs after sale, or at all.
Otherwise it's a great ruse isn't it:
Sell a customers car - so you don't have to use your own money financing it.
Sell it for more than agreed - don't tell the customer, keep that ourselves.
Sell them a warranty - some more margin there, and it covers our legal requirement as a dealer to effect repairs.
And if it does go wrong - don't use the warranty, use our own garage, and charge the full whack (plus VAT) back to the customer, so we get paid yet again!
No Nothing on the SOR sheet, it is simply a 1 page info sheet with contact details and confirmation of the pricing and commission structure. I have requested the MD call me tomorrow. I now have it in writing from the dealership that they sold the car for £40,493 plus £500 warranty to the customer. However I have it in writing from the purchaser that they have purchased the car for £41,273 plus £1,000 warranty. The warranty is not my concern, but they have cheated me out of £773 for the car. I'm just astonished that a company that sells high end second hand cars does not have proper paperwork.
In short, the default in your agreement would be that the dealer should pay you your money, in full, immediately, or at very least in a reasonably short time period.
Additionally, unless you agreed that you were paying for repairs for some period of time, I'd also dispute that it's your responsibility to pay for repairs at all. If the dealer wants to be a dealer, then I think they should be covering this cost.
My advice at this stage is to pay them nothing, and go an see a solicitor. My angle would be to formally request your money back in full in the next seven days, and reject that you are responsible for seemingly unlimited repair costs after sale, or at all.
Otherwise it's a great ruse isn't it:
Sell a customers car - so you don't have to use your own money financing it.
Sell it for more than agreed - don't tell the customer, keep that ourselves.
Sell them a warranty - some more margin there, and it covers our legal requirement as a dealer to effect repairs.
And if it does go wrong - don't use the warranty, use our own garage, and charge the full whack (plus VAT) back to the customer, so we get paid yet again!
I did not agree at any point for the repairs to the car. And i constantly asked in writing what was going on (in wiring and on the phone) with no response. In my eyes it is not my responsibility to pay for the works/repairs, I sold the car as a used car and all various inspections and viewings were done accordingly.
Update:
Can anyone suggest a good law firm for this type of thing? I know how all the documented proof I need and the company director is stating he doesn't feel his firm have to pay for the works and are categorically stating they sold the car for £40,500 when I have proof it was sold for £41,273. I think now is the time to put this in solicitors hands.
Any help would be most appreciated.
Can anyone suggest a good law firm for this type of thing? I know how all the documented proof I need and the company director is stating he doesn't feel his firm have to pay for the works and are categorically stating they sold the car for £40,500 when I have proof it was sold for £41,273. I think now is the time to put this in solicitors hands.
Any help would be most appreciated.
Guys anyone able to help with this. I have spoken to the Director who has suddenly realised they sold the car not for £40,500 but for £40,993. Even though I know it was sold for £41,273. He is not willing to pay for all of the works given I gave no authority to carry out the works, and has agreed to pay for half of the works.
I would have let this slide, however I the fact that have to skim an additional £750 on top of the real price of my car leaves me in no position other than to seek legal advice. Its simply the principle of the situation given that I would not like myself or anyone in the future to be at the receiving end of their unscrupulous dealings.
Thoughts?
I would have let this slide, however I the fact that have to skim an additional £750 on top of the real price of my car leaves me in no position other than to seek legal advice. Its simply the principle of the situation given that I would not like myself or anyone in the future to be at the receiving end of their unscrupulous dealings.
Thoughts?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff