Rejecting a new 2015 BMW M5 CP - advice please
Discussion
I have previously posted about problems with the 2015 BMW M5 CP I purchased in June 2015. Since new, it has had a leaky rear diff and is now with the dealer who is attempting to fix it for a second time.
Each time the car has been off the road for over a week and to be frank I have lost confidence in the car, not to mention the inconvenience of not having it… I have had a courtesy car each time, but at the moment am in an orange 4 door Mini Cooper S, hardly an M5.
I would like to reject the car as I am fed up with the whole experience but am not sure of the process or even if my circumstances would warrant a rejection.
I am already in contact with BMW UK about this. After the first attempt to fix the problem (replacing one of the seals), BMW paid me compensation, which amounted to half my monthly PCP payment and this was in ‘full and final settlement’.
The issue reoccurring was only identified when it went in for it’s 1200 mile running in service and the seal was found to be still leaking. The decision has been made to replace the whole diff but some of the items are on back order from Germany meaning a potential long wait for parts… As this is a recurrence of the same issue, I do not believe that the full and final settlement figure for the first incident is still valid.
I have bought a lot of cars over the years – many of them of this type and I have never been in this situation before. Therefore, any advice/thoughts much appreciated.
Each time the car has been off the road for over a week and to be frank I have lost confidence in the car, not to mention the inconvenience of not having it… I have had a courtesy car each time, but at the moment am in an orange 4 door Mini Cooper S, hardly an M5.
I would like to reject the car as I am fed up with the whole experience but am not sure of the process or even if my circumstances would warrant a rejection.
I am already in contact with BMW UK about this. After the first attempt to fix the problem (replacing one of the seals), BMW paid me compensation, which amounted to half my monthly PCP payment and this was in ‘full and final settlement’.
The issue reoccurring was only identified when it went in for it’s 1200 mile running in service and the seal was found to be still leaking. The decision has been made to replace the whole diff but some of the items are on back order from Germany meaning a potential long wait for parts… As this is a recurrence of the same issue, I do not believe that the full and final settlement figure for the first incident is still valid.
I have bought a lot of cars over the years – many of them of this type and I have never been in this situation before. Therefore, any advice/thoughts much appreciated.
The Surveyor said:
Does the leaky diff prevent the car from being driven? As in does it dump all it's fluid and leave you stranded, or is it just an annoying spot of oil on the drive over night?
The latterThe Surveyor said:
If it's the later and it isn't stopping you driving the car, I'd have thought you would have very little grounds to reject the car. It's annoying, and the poor BMW service even more so, but that wouldn't be a valid reason to reject it, especially as they are looking to repair it!
It is stopping me driving the car as I don't have it. The dealer has advised that it needs fixing before I drive it again.The Surveyor said:
You mentioned PCP, is that through BMW or an independent supplier, and what have they said?
It's through BMW FS. They have not commented on the latest situation yet, other than to have acknowledged that there is an issue.GroundEffect said:
The first question is what ultimately do you gain by rejecting the car? It's only been in twice.
And you have been given a courtesy car.
I am no solicitor but you don't appear to have any grounds for rejection as it's one issue with the car, that they're on their second attempt to fix whilst putting you up in a replacement car. Hardly earth-shatteringly bad.
You don't say what action was taken on the seal the first time. I very much doubt they are opening up the differential on your car? They should be replacing it...
Fair enough but I wouldn't expect this from a car of this type. It's also the first M car I have bought - hardly a good advert....And you have been given a courtesy car.
I am no solicitor but you don't appear to have any grounds for rejection as it's one issue with the car, that they're on their second attempt to fix whilst putting you up in a replacement car. Hardly earth-shatteringly bad.
You don't say what action was taken on the seal the first time. I very much doubt they are opening up the differential on your car? They should be replacing it...
As far as the diff is concerned, yes, they are replacing it.
Mojooo said:
The right to reject is not dependent on any offer to repair - you just need to show it was not as described, fit for the purpsoe for which it was supplied or satisfactory qualty.
The issue is of course a minor fault may not make it of unsatisfactory quality but a major one might.
One thign I would say from experience is that the longer you leave it the harder it is to reject - indeed after a reasonable time period has passed you may be deemed to have 'accepted' the car in which case the right to reject is gone and you then rely on repair/repalcement or partial refund/full refund.
Thanks - useful advice.The issue is of course a minor fault may not make it of unsatisfactory quality but a major one might.
One thign I would say from experience is that the longer you leave it the harder it is to reject - indeed after a reasonable time period has passed you may be deemed to have 'accepted' the car in which case the right to reject is gone and you then rely on repair/repalcement or partial refund/full refund.
btcc123 said:
As you have agreed to a compensation payment from BMW as full and final settlement legally I am pretty sure you cannot reject the car now.Did you not see that BWM were being very sneaky doing this.While the car is under warranty they have to correct any faults during this time.
Maybe, but at the time, no-one thought that the problem would re-occur....GroundEffect said:
trando said:
GroundEffect said:
The first question is what ultimately do you gain by rejecting the car? It's only been in twice.
And you have been given a courtesy car.
I am no solicitor but you don't appear to have any grounds for rejection as it's one issue with the car, that they're on their second attempt to fix whilst putting you up in a replacement car. Hardly earth-shatteringly bad.
You don't say what action was taken on the seal the first time. I very much doubt they are opening up the differential on your car? They should be replacing it...
Fair enough but I wouldn't expect this from a car of this type. It's also the first M car I have bought - hardly a good advert....And you have been given a courtesy car.
I am no solicitor but you don't appear to have any grounds for rejection as it's one issue with the car, that they're on their second attempt to fix whilst putting you up in a replacement car. Hardly earth-shatteringly bad.
You don't say what action was taken on the seal the first time. I very much doubt they are opening up the differential on your car? They should be replacing it...
As far as the diff is concerned, yes, they are replacing it.
Rejecting a £70k item because of this is absurd TBH.
I would like to thank everyone for their comments.
This is not about criticising the dealer - on the contrary they have done everything they can. This is about BMW the manufacturer and the fact that they have let a car get to market without the necessary quality controls taking place.
As an new owner of a car of this type it is massively frustrating and equally disappointing that it should have problems so early in its life.
The reason for my post was to gather the thoughts of people that are far more knowledgeable than me to get some advice about an appropriate course of action.
I think that course of action is to let the dealer do their best to fix the problem in whatever time it takes and hope that that solves it once and for all. In the meantime I'll organise a different courtesy car and make sure that BMW FS are aware of my frustrations. What they choose do to about that I will wait and see.
Thanks again for all your comments.
This is not about criticising the dealer - on the contrary they have done everything they can. This is about BMW the manufacturer and the fact that they have let a car get to market without the necessary quality controls taking place.
As an new owner of a car of this type it is massively frustrating and equally disappointing that it should have problems so early in its life.
The reason for my post was to gather the thoughts of people that are far more knowledgeable than me to get some advice about an appropriate course of action.
I think that course of action is to let the dealer do their best to fix the problem in whatever time it takes and hope that that solves it once and for all. In the meantime I'll organise a different courtesy car and make sure that BMW FS are aware of my frustrations. What they choose do to about that I will wait and see.
Thanks again for all your comments.
Durzel said:
Replacing the whole diff instead of trying to fix it over and over again, as some dealers/marques might, is to some extent what you're getting from your prestige vehicle. In the long run you'll be saving time and hassle, though it won't seem like it now.
With the best will in the world problems might only show up once a vehicle is being used in anger, in a variety of conditions that it wouldn't be practical to simulate.
No one would want to be in your position having bought a new car, but some people do end up in your position unavoidably. BMW haven't been negligent or obstructive, quite the opposite, they're going to absorb a non-trivial cost in replacing a big component when they probably don't need to (mechanically or legally) to save you the hassle of potentially having to keep going back to the dealer.
It sucks but you're being treated well all things considered.
Agreed. This is not about the dealer. With the best will in the world problems might only show up once a vehicle is being used in anger, in a variety of conditions that it wouldn't be practical to simulate.
No one would want to be in your position having bought a new car, but some people do end up in your position unavoidably. BMW haven't been negligent or obstructive, quite the opposite, they're going to absorb a non-trivial cost in replacing a big component when they probably don't need to (mechanically or legally) to save you the hassle of potentially having to keep going back to the dealer.
It sucks but you're being treated well all things considered.
TVR1 said:
'I have lost confidence in the car'
A telling phrase in the motor trade.
You have either been bashed by the missus for spending too much- who wants a knew kitchen or, as usualy happens, you have suddenly realised 's
te, this car is gonna cost a lot to run' . And want an out and cant really afford it.
Which one OP?
My previous recent cars have been a Jaguar XFR, C63, C55 - my wife loves to drive them as much as I do and I can afford to run them. Thanks for your concern though.A telling phrase in the motor trade.
You have either been bashed by the missus for spending too much- who wants a knew kitchen or, as usualy happens, you have suddenly realised 's
te, this car is gonna cost a lot to run' . And want an out and cant really afford it.Which one OP?
This is not about the dealer. They have done all they can and are managing the situation as best they can.
This thread was about asking advice - which I have now had - and as a result I have decided not to reject the car for the reasons that most of you have pointed out. Which is fine by the way.
BMW paid me half of one month's PCP payment for the original problem - which they offered - I didn't ask for it. This I think is fair as it represented the time during the month that I was without the car. If they offer me further compensation, fine, but they may not.
Yes, I have a courtesy car, which is not an M5 but as some have pointed out, it is unlikely that an M5 would be available, but whilst I think a Mini is ok, a more equivalent car would be appreciated, and the dealer has now made a 5 series available to me from tomorrow.
I value the PH community - there is a wealth of experience here and that's the reason I asked for advice. Some of the replies have been intriguing to say the least but as ever it is the variety of opinions (positive and negative) that keeps this community alive.
Good weekend all.
This thread was about asking advice - which I have now had - and as a result I have decided not to reject the car for the reasons that most of you have pointed out. Which is fine by the way.
BMW paid me half of one month's PCP payment for the original problem - which they offered - I didn't ask for it. This I think is fair as it represented the time during the month that I was without the car. If they offer me further compensation, fine, but they may not.
Yes, I have a courtesy car, which is not an M5 but as some have pointed out, it is unlikely that an M5 would be available, but whilst I think a Mini is ok, a more equivalent car would be appreciated, and the dealer has now made a 5 series available to me from tomorrow.
I value the PH community - there is a wealth of experience here and that's the reason I asked for advice. Some of the replies have been intriguing to say the least but as ever it is the variety of opinions (positive and negative) that keeps this community alive.
Good weekend all.
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