Who's At Fault Here? - Car Vs Cyclist (Video)

[Retroman]

Seen this doing the rounds on a Facebook page i follow.
Not involved in any way myself but curious, especially as all the armchair experts in the comments would put the blame 100% on the cyclist.

Edit: Cyclist was on the phone at the time of the accident.

https://www.facebook.com/143233165824638/videos/56...

[Retroman]

I was thinking the same thing. If it was another car that hit the car pulling out, no one would question who was at fault but because it's a cyclist and a lot of motorists dislike cyclists they will try and find ways to blame them for what happened.

Car failed to give way to traffic already on the road. An experienced cyclist who wasn't on the phone might have been able to dodge it or stop in time but the average cyclist would have no chance.

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Mr GrimNasty said:

Utter tosh. A car would have stopped no problem whatsoever, assuming the driver wasn't looking at his phone.

The cyclist would have had no problem stopping/steering either, if he had been cycling with due care.

It's like a cliche driving test hazard perception incident!

I make it about 2 seconds from where the car becomes visible to the cyclist hitting it.

An experienced cyclist with good brakes could have probably stopped in time or swerved out the way, but your average commuter cyclist would have no chance.

What Loon is asking though is if you did hit the car pulling out, would you be happy to accept blame?

[Retroman]

I guess the cyclist must be at fault here as well, even though he swerved to avoid the vehicle and rammed on the brakes.

https://youtu.be/4MC5NTVBUo4

[Retroman]

I'm a driver and a cyclist myself as well.

If i was pulling out in that scenario, i'd have been leaning as far forward as i can and pulling out about 1/4 of the speed that car did and doing it in small increments so if anything was coming that i couldn't see, they'd have a better chance of seeing me.

If i were to switch positions...

I'd consider myself an experienced cyclist with most of it doing mountain biking and BMXing so i could have possibly reacted and tried to stop a bit faster as i'm used to that kind of thing.
If we ignore the cyclist is on his phone and switch it to he was taking a drink from his drinks bottle, then i doubt i could have avoided the accident either, even with my experience. You can't brake hard or swerve quickly with one hand as you'd end up coming off similar to how the cyclist did in the video even if you never hit the car.

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D1ckie said:

The van parked causing the driver to have to edge out to see what is coming.

You see this a lot in residential areas which drivers who park with zero consideration for other road users. How is the car supposed to see what is coming without edging out?

It's difficult to say, but i don't think pulling out and hoping someone isn't there is ideal.

Edge out a few inches, then stop for a few seconds and repeat perhaps.
At least that way you're giving other road users ample opportunity to see you, if you can't see them.

[Retroman]

To be a complete pedant, i watched it again and timed from when the car appeared to the cyclist hitting it and it's less than 2 seconds.

The bike is a full road bike as well with dropped bars. There's 3 positions you can normally put your hands on these types of bars when cycling and the brakes can only be used in 2 of those positions.
From the posture the cyclist was using, his hands looked to be in the position you can't pull the brakes with.

So less than 2 seconds to move your hands position on handlebars, pull the brakes, slow down and stop.
Not going to happen.

The being on the phone is a moot point (as mentioned) because if they were scratching their face, wiping their nose, rubbing their eye, or even hand signalling then the result would be the same as you'd be cycling one handled.

With the way the bars and forks are set up on a full road bike, i wouldn't fancy my chances of trying to do a violent one handed swerve without falling off

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TheBALDpuma said:

I disagree. I think he had plenty of time to stop. Had he been paying attention with his hands on the handlebars.

Are you a cyclist?

Did you see my post earlier post saying how it would be very unlikely they could stop in time?

The cyclist had one hand on the bars and in the position of the picture below. They had less than 2 seconds to move their hand, pull the brake, slow down and stop. The fall might not have been as bad, but there would have been a fall regardless.

http://www.roadbikerider.com/sites/default/files/a...

[Retroman]

TheBALDpuma said:

Cycled throughout my teen competitively in DH racing, haven't done that for 10 years, but have always had a bike of some kind including DJ, road and XC. Currently a rather nice Stanton Slackline.

Having one hand on the bars is not an excuse! That's like saying it's not my fault I hit the car in front, I was on the phone on cruise control with my legs cross so I didn't notice couldn't brake in time

If we disregard the 1 hand, you still have less than 2 seconds to move both hands to the braking positions, pull on the brakes, slow down and stop.
It's not likely to happen.

You'll know from experience as well that full road bikes with caliper style brakes don't stop the same as a XC set up with rotors.

[Retroman]

flemke said:

If you start and stop the video, you can see that, definitely after the point where the nose of the car would have been visible to him, the cyclist continued to pedal, for at least a further 1½ revolutions. Surely, if the cyclist had been paying attention, he could have mitigated the impact by altering his course.

Not say that the driver was not primarily to blame, but the piss-poor cycling made it worse than it should have been.

I agree.

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Pontoneer said:

I wouldn't have hit that emerging car because I'd have adopted the safety position , in that set of circumstances right across on the other side of the road , my speed would have been down , and I'd have been on the horn and the brakes as soon as I'd seen the front bumper of the emerging car , which would have been sooner than the cyclist did , by virtue of my better positioning .

I asked if you hit the car.

[Retroman]

Pontoneer said:

There was no negligence on the part of the car driver , nothing further he could have done ( other than not going out that day ) to avoid the incident , therefore no wrong and no liability .

Nothing more the car driver could have done?
I already said earlier he could have inched out a few inches at 1/4 that speed. Stopped, waited a few moments, then repeated. This gives traffic he can't see ample time to react to them joining the road. That's what i do when i'm driving.
Surely if you can't see if the road you are joining is clear this is a better method to joining it than simple rolling a large part of your vehicle into the road and hope it's clear?

Pontoneer said:

On the other hand , the cyclist clearly was negligent , and therefore responsible , for the reasons I have stated in earlier responses and won't type again . It would have been no different for a driver . There were numerous measures he could have taken to avoid the collision , but failed to do , therefore he carries the can .

As Loon already mentioned. The cyclist is already on the road. It's up to people joining the road to make sure it's clear when doing so. Traffic on the road has right of way so when you pull out of a minor road or driveway and cause an accident due to hitting traffic that has right of way, you have evidently failed to give way.

Pontoneer said:

I just watched the video again , several times , IMO the car did emerge reasonably slowly , and even from the perspective of the camera car , was clearly visible when the cyclist was passing the second car behind the van - so he had at minimum three car lengths to see the car emerging and either give warning of his approach ( which he didn't - some cyclists have loud air horns , and if he's going to ride around like that he needs one ) or avoid the car .

So now we're onto assuming the cyclist is more at fault for not using hardware that he probably doesn't have?
If you time it, there's less than 2 seconds from the vehicle emerging to the cyclist hitting it. That's not much time to do anything when you're cycling with one hand.

Pontoneer said:

He certainly had no right or excuse to run right into it ( could it be a crash for cash scam I wonder ) ...

Come on now. I don't know any cyclists myself, and i know a few that would risk wrecking their bike, risk breaking some bones just so they can haggle with insurance companies and do without said bike for several months to try and get some compo. Cyclists who use the type of bike the rider was using normally cycle to get fit. Having injuries and no bicycle for months is likely to be detrimental towards that goal.

Pontoneer said:

Given that the bike had plenty of time to stop safely , and should have been looking where he was going , if he swerved into another car instead of stopping safely on his own side of the road , then of course it would have been his fault .

I don't think less than 2 seconds whilst cycling one handed is plenty of time to stop safely.
If you had both hands on the bars (which the cyclist did not) and were covering the brakes (which the cyclist wasn't) and had a good brake set up (which is unlikely as it's a full road bike) then you might have a chance. But in the circumstances in the video, the cyclist had no chance of stopping.
If you don't believe me, try riding a mountain bike with bull bars, cycle one handed with the hand on the bull bar then tell me if you can move that hand to the default position, ram on the rear brake, one handed then come to a stop in less than 2 seconds without falling off.

Pontoneer said:

The car didn't hit the cyclist : the car was stopped and the cyclist hit the car .

The cyclist should be paying for damage to car , and if the driver took him to court the court could award him the damages . If I were the driver in that position , with the video evidence , I would win .

You're wrong. If you looked at civil court claims or insurance disputes where people have tried to do what you are suggesting, it doesn't happen like that.