FPN - Blood Robbing Council

[bad company]

I just got a FPN from Newham Council. I remember the day although Mrs BC was driving. There were lots of roadworks so we took a diversion and ended up here:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5498728,-0.00813...

It seems that once you turn (legally) into Temple Mill Lane you already facing No Entry signs for the roads left and right leaving no way out without making a U turn. The turn on the right is into a private car park which was closed anyway.

There is already a thread on Pepipoo as others have been caught:-

http://www.pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.ph...

Can't really see a way out but bloody annoying that a road would run into no entry signs leaving no legal way out other than a U turn.

[bad company]

CoolHands said:

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying you drove over the bridge? Or are you saying you got a ticket for doing a U-turn?

No we didn't do a U turn, apparently we went thru the No Entry sign. Seems odd as we although Mrs BC was driving we were both concentrating on the route so very odd that we both failed to see the sign.

The road was busy that day due to another local road being closed for works so very profitable for Newham Coundil.

[bad company]

I just went back to the site on foot. The No Entry signs are clear enough but as I said nowhere else to go. There had been signs directing traffic into this road but they had been painted over. This explains why sat navs including mine are still directing traffic down that road.

The only positive was that the council revenue car was there again and I managed to turn 3 cars back before he left at 1pm.

Seriously dozens of cars were going through the No Entry after tho. Very nice earner for the council.

[bad company]

All that jazz said:

That's BS.

Going off the pics posted above (I've not looked at streetview) then I would be very tempted to contest that with the argument that you were going to Leytonstone and following the road signs being your mitigating reason. There's no indication on the sign before the junction that it's a restricted access and no mention on said sign of how one gets to Leytonstone in a non-bus vehicle. I would certainly contest it and also say that you've copied it to their Highways/traffic signs department for their input etc. Obviously a no-entry is a no-entry, but if you lay it on thick about there being buses up your arse and traffic everywhere due to the diversion rendering it too dangerous to turn round in the road you might stand a chance.

The road signs to Leytonstone have been painted over. Still visible tho.

[bad company]

All that jazz said:

Ah, that's a problem then. The fact they're still partly visible is neither here nor there. If they've clearly been painted over then that should give you sufficient warning of problems ahead, which you found. Time to dig deep!

Following your comments I went back the site again yesterday late afternoon. On checking the signs to Leyton and Leytonstone have only been painted out from one direction. The signs as below are still there directing traffic right into the 'trap'.



So if you are following the road signs you will go into the road where you are confroned with No Entry signs with no exit. To make it worse when I returned the council camera van had also returned and was parked on double yellow lines making it impossible to make a U turn without using forward and reverse gears (used to be called a 3 point turn). In summary apart from revenue raising this could be argued as dangerous.

Here is the car:-

[bad company]

All that jazz said:

In that case you've nothing to lose by fighting it imho - I would. Send that last pic to the appeals address and also find out the email for the road signs dept on your local council website and copy them in asking for their comments as in your opinion it's deliberately misleading, you were just following the signs etc and perhaps mention that you're prepared to fight it in court. Might be worth mailing the local rag about this "money trap" too as they usually like that kind of thing when it's as blatant as this.

Is that council camera car parked on double yellows? If it is, even more fuel for your fire if you get closer with your own camera!

Yes the council car is on double yellow lines. I can see all that your saying but the fact is that Mrs BC went thru the No Entry sign.

[bad company]

WinstonWolf said:

How close to the junction is that car parked???

Not too close, perhaps 15 metres or so.

I'm sure the car will have required exemption to park on the yellow lines. IMO if there is a way out it is that by parking there he is making it impossible to make a 'clean' U turn so you need to make a 3 point turn in the face of oncoming traffic.

This is a serious money making exercise - nothing to do with safety.

[bad company]

V8LM said:

Why didn't you do a 3 point turn?

Good question.

The honest answer is that neither of us (Mrs BC was driving) remember going through the No Entry sign. This is very odd as neither of us has ever failed to notice such a sign before. The guy on the Pepipoo forum also has no recollection of the sign but in all honesty it would be incredible if it wasn't there.

Unfortunately the data card on my dash cam has overwritten itself.

[bad company]

Vipers said:

Thought a link on the previous page made it clear no one has exemption. AND IN A BIKE LANE.

Link -

http://www.watchingyou.info/index.php?option=com_c...

Edited by Vipers on Monday 28th September 21:32

I had missed that, thank you.

[bad company]

Vipers said:

bad company said:

V8LM said:

Why didn't you do a 3 point turn?

Good question.

The honest answer is that neither of us (Mrs BC was driving) remember going through the No Entry sign. This is very odd as neither of us has ever failed to notice such a sign before. The guy on the Pepipoo forum also has no recollection of the sign but in all honesty it would be incredible if it wasn't there.

Unfortunately the data card on my dash cam has overwritten itself.

Out of interest, are you local to the area, seems like this is the first time you took that road, if you had driven down it before I assume you would have noticed the sign then. Mind you with the misleading road sign, easy for the little grey cells to be locked in to driving ahead. Is why I think if that camera car is often parked there, they know damm well they will catch people out.

As someone mentioned earlier, not easy for an artic having to reverse out of there. Money making trap me thinks.

We don't live in the area but we are regular visitors. This time our normal exit road was closed for works so we were a bit lost and looking for a way to the M11 to get home. Our satnav took us through the No Entry sign which is obviously no excuse.

Interestingly the PCN states Temple Mill Lane and the road sign agrees with that but on searching online it appears that the road should be Temple Mills Lane (with an S). I suspect that the council put the wrong road sign up after the redevelopment. Might try to argue that there was no contravention because Temple Mill Lane in Newham does not exist.

[bad company]

speedking31 said:

Not a hope, you don't decide whether to pass a No Entry sign based on whether the road name is spelled correctly on the roadsign. (Not saying that you 'decided', I believe it is missable.)

You may be right but the fact is that the PCN refers to a road which does not exist.

The strongest part of the defence IMO is that the road signs are still directing traffic into the No Entry trap and the (illegally parked) Newham camera car is making it difficult to make a U turn.

I just started this on pepipoo - http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=1017...

Starting to wonder if its all worth the effort to save £65 but I hate the thought of the bar stewards getting away with it.

[bad company]

Well not surprisingly London Borough of Newham rejected the appeal. The letter said that if I signed into the 'Pay It' sections of their website I could view the photographs. Guess what, there were no photographs.

Sent off today for the tribunal which should be heard late December.

[bad company]

Well I appealed to London Borough of Newham which was predictably refused so I took the appeal to the tribunal in London. The appeal was heard yesterday and I WON!!!!

The decision was based on the signs being wrong and the council admitting (from a Freedom Of Information) request that the sign was not corrected until after the event.

[bad company]

Vipers said:

Well done good to hear, out of interest what signage did they change, is it still a no entry.

If you look at the pictures posted by Rich888 the 2nd picy no longer directs traffic to Leyton, Leytonstone & into the 'trap'.

[bad company]

I agree that a fraud charge would never work. I am contacting the local newspaper to see if they are interested though.

[bad company]

I agree that a fraud charge would never work. I am contacting the local newspaper to see if they are interested though.

[bad company]

callahan said:

Sorry for digging up this old thread, but a Google search for this street brought it straight up!

I just got a ticket yesterday for exactly the same thing. Admittedly my wife saw the no entry sign just after I had gone through, as I was following a bus so didn't see it. By then it was too late to turn back.

I was snapped by a camera car too. How did the local paper campaign go? Any suggestions (except for 'pay up, it was your mistake ' - which I will do anyway)?

Sorry to hear that. I won my claim on the signs being wrong but they have since been corrected. I'm there fairly regularly with these guys http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/ , 'saving' drivers from being caught. It's still not right IMO as once you are onto the no entry sign it's difficult to escape.

I would appeal on those grounds. The council will refuse your appeal (they always do) then offer the reduced fine again. That at least buys you some time.

Edited by bad company on Friday 24th June 11:18

Edited by bad company on Friday 24th June 11:26

[bad company]

callahan said:

Thanks, I have registered on the site as you suggested, we'll see if there is any mileage in disputing it.

I sent you a pm with the person to ask.

Good Luck!

[bad company]

callahan said:

Thanks, I have registered on the site as you suggested, we'll see if there is any mileage in disputing it.

This may help:-



This is public info by the way, anybody can access it. The guy won his appeal because the signs were regarded as inadequate.