Not declaring points gained during policy - am I screwed
Discussion
Hoping someone may be able to help me out with how best to proceed here, please bare with me as the explanation is quite long!
A week and a half ago I updated my insurance (through my broker) to add a friend onto my 205 gti - his car is off the road and he needed to borrow something to get around. There was no additional charge for this.
My insurance is renewed each February, I originally took it out in Feb 2014, declaring 3 points from an offence in April 2012. I was caught speeding in May 2014 and had an accident 2 days later, before the FPN came through. That claim has been handled and paid out, the solicitors are still pursuing the other party as it was their fault but they are denying it.
When I got the FPN and got my licence back, I only had 3 points instead of 6. I checked online and this was correct - the ones from 2012 had never been put on the licence. As a result, I didn't bother to tell my broker as I had declared 3 points I thought I had at renewal, and I now had 3 new ones but not the old ones, so my insurance said 3 points and I had 3 points.
Fast forward to February 2015 and my insurance renewal was due. I explained the 3 point situation to my broker, saying the date he had on record turned out to be incorrect, but I had a new 3 points from May 2014. This was all updated without issue and the underwriter renewed the policy and didn't kick up a fuss about the technicality over the points (they still have the May 2014 accident ongoing so I figured they could have if they wanted to be awkward).
Now, in May 2015 I was caught speeding again, another SP30. I was pulled for no insurance as well, but the officer was satisfied when I showed him my documents. I emailed my broker immediately after this to ask why the officer said I had no insurance and he told me the underwriter hadn't added the cars back to the database and this had now been corrected. In my email I also mentioned I was pulled for speeding, and should I let them know if/when I got the 3 points. I was told "If you are given any points for speeding could you please advise so we can keep your records up-to-date."
So I waited and waited, but didn't receive an FPN, so I thought I'd got away with it, however some time in July (I think it was the last week of July) I got a letter saying I hadn't responded to my FPN in one month, so they were giving me a 7 day extension to send my licence off. Clearly the original letter didn't arrive, so I sent my licence off straight away with the completed form.
About 3 weeks ago, I still hadn't got my licence back so emailed Norfolk constabulary who told me I'd have to take it up with the DVLA. I couldn't be arsed with going through their phone system so just paid for another. That didn't arrive until yesterday. In the intervening time, I hadn't told my broker about the 3 points because I wanted to check I actually had them, which I couldn't do without my licence as I needed the number on it to check.
So on Tuesday night (the day before licence came back) I got a call from my friend, whom I'd lent the car to. He'd gone to the pub, left it in the car park and some idiot let their handbrake off and their car rolled into mine, smashing the window and denting the door( 205 gti). They admitted liability to my friend, who took their name, address and insurance company (but no phone or policy number). I emailed my insurance company directly (not my broker) first thing Wednesday morning, before my licence arrived to let them know.
They are now asking for scans of mine and my friends licence, so they can double check points and I'm really worried my 3 undeclared points will be a big issue. From my understanding of the terms, I only need to tell the broker (which I haven't done yet) and not them. I did tell my broker I was pulled for speeding, but hadn't yet confirmed the 3 points because I'd been unable to confirm it myself. The relevant term in my policy is quoted below.
ked am I and how likely are they to not pay out? Like I said it's the other guy's fault anyway.
A week and a half ago I updated my insurance (through my broker) to add a friend onto my 205 gti - his car is off the road and he needed to borrow something to get around. There was no additional charge for this.
My insurance is renewed each February, I originally took it out in Feb 2014, declaring 3 points from an offence in April 2012. I was caught speeding in May 2014 and had an accident 2 days later, before the FPN came through. That claim has been handled and paid out, the solicitors are still pursuing the other party as it was their fault but they are denying it.
When I got the FPN and got my licence back, I only had 3 points instead of 6. I checked online and this was correct - the ones from 2012 had never been put on the licence. As a result, I didn't bother to tell my broker as I had declared 3 points I thought I had at renewal, and I now had 3 new ones but not the old ones, so my insurance said 3 points and I had 3 points.
Fast forward to February 2015 and my insurance renewal was due. I explained the 3 point situation to my broker, saying the date he had on record turned out to be incorrect, but I had a new 3 points from May 2014. This was all updated without issue and the underwriter renewed the policy and didn't kick up a fuss about the technicality over the points (they still have the May 2014 accident ongoing so I figured they could have if they wanted to be awkward).
Now, in May 2015 I was caught speeding again, another SP30. I was pulled for no insurance as well, but the officer was satisfied when I showed him my documents. I emailed my broker immediately after this to ask why the officer said I had no insurance and he told me the underwriter hadn't added the cars back to the database and this had now been corrected. In my email I also mentioned I was pulled for speeding, and should I let them know if/when I got the 3 points. I was told "If you are given any points for speeding could you please advise so we can keep your records up-to-date."
So I waited and waited, but didn't receive an FPN, so I thought I'd got away with it, however some time in July (I think it was the last week of July) I got a letter saying I hadn't responded to my FPN in one month, so they were giving me a 7 day extension to send my licence off. Clearly the original letter didn't arrive, so I sent my licence off straight away with the completed form.
About 3 weeks ago, I still hadn't got my licence back so emailed Norfolk constabulary who told me I'd have to take it up with the DVLA. I couldn't be arsed with going through their phone system so just paid for another. That didn't arrive until yesterday. In the intervening time, I hadn't told my broker about the 3 points because I wanted to check I actually had them, which I couldn't do without my licence as I needed the number on it to check.
So on Tuesday night (the day before licence came back) I got a call from my friend, whom I'd lent the car to. He'd gone to the pub, left it in the car park and some idiot let their handbrake off and their car rolled into mine, smashing the window and denting the door( 205 gti). They admitted liability to my friend, who took their name, address and insurance company (but no phone or policy number). I emailed my insurance company directly (not my broker) first thing Wednesday morning, before my licence arrived to let them know.
They are now asking for scans of mine and my friends licence, so they can double check points and I'm really worried my 3 undeclared points will be a big issue. From my understanding of the terms, I only need to tell the broker (which I haven't done yet) and not them. I did tell my broker I was pulled for speeding, but hadn't yet confirmed the 3 points because I'd been unable to confirm it myself. The relevant term in my policy is quoted below.
Terms said:
If there is any change in your circumstances or if the information
you have provided is no longer true, valid or up to date, you must tell
the intermediary who arranged the policy for you, or us, as soon as is
reasonably possible as this may affect your policy and your ability to
claim under it. You must tell us immediately and confirm:
• if ou sell a vehicle;
• if you purchase a new vehicle that you want to insure with us;
• if you want to add a new household member or insured person
to the policy;
• of all accidents, claims or losses including fire, theft, vandalism
and malicious damage in the last 3 years, involving you or an
insured person, to any vehicle whether insured by us or not;
• of all motoring convictions in the last 5 years (or 3 years for fixed
penalty offences). If a motoring offence resulted in a custodial
sentence, then you must tell us about all unspent convictions
under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974
• if you or an insured person have been convicted of, or received
a police caution for, or charged with but not yet tried for, any
non-motoring related offence other than those spent under the
Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974;
• if you have had an insurer invoke cancellation, refuse to renew or
agree to accept cover but only with special terms;
• if you have been declared bankrupt, had bankruptcy procedures
taken against you, received a County Court judgment or entered
into an arrangement with creditors;
• if you have not given us a true representation of your driving
experience;
• if there is any modification to your vehicle from the
manufacturer’s standard specification (manufacturer options are
classed as standard specification);
• if you have not provided us with true and accurate information
for all persons who are named on the policy. This includes: dates
of birth, type of licence, period licence held, period of residency in
the United Kingdom;
• if the windscreen to any vehicle shows any sign of damage
before the policy incepted, or before the vehicle was added to
the policy mid-term;
• if any vehicle is used for hire & reward;
• if any vehicle is not used for the use as defined on the certificate;
• if you are buying and selling cars for profit or trade;
• of all types of employment that you receive income from or are
named as a Director
Apologies if any of that is confusing - I'll clarify if it's not. Basically I haven't replied to the request for scans of licences (it'll take a couple of days for us to both get them) and want to know how best to proceed (do I 'fess up or just send the scan and say nothing?) and also, how fyou have provided is no longer true, valid or up to date, you must tell
the intermediary who arranged the policy for you, or us, as soon as is
reasonably possible as this may affect your policy and your ability to
claim under it. You must tell us immediately and confirm:
• if ou sell a vehicle;
• if you purchase a new vehicle that you want to insure with us;
• if you want to add a new household member or insured person
to the policy;
• of all accidents, claims or losses including fire, theft, vandalism
and malicious damage in the last 3 years, involving you or an
insured person, to any vehicle whether insured by us or not;
• of all motoring convictions in the last 5 years (or 3 years for fixed
penalty offences). If a motoring offence resulted in a custodial
sentence, then you must tell us about all unspent convictions
under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974
• if you or an insured person have been convicted of, or received
a police caution for, or charged with but not yet tried for, any
non-motoring related offence other than those spent under the
Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974;
• if you have had an insurer invoke cancellation, refuse to renew or
agree to accept cover but only with special terms;
• if you have been declared bankrupt, had bankruptcy procedures
taken against you, received a County Court judgment or entered
into an arrangement with creditors;
• if you have not given us a true representation of your driving
experience;
• if there is any modification to your vehicle from the
manufacturer’s standard specification (manufacturer options are
classed as standard specification);
• if you have not provided us with true and accurate information
for all persons who are named on the policy. This includes: dates
of birth, type of licence, period licence held, period of residency in
the United Kingdom;
• if the windscreen to any vehicle shows any sign of damage
before the policy incepted, or before the vehicle was added to
the policy mid-term;
• if any vehicle is used for hire & reward;
• if any vehicle is not used for the use as defined on the certificate;
• if you are buying and selling cars for profit or trade;
• of all types of employment that you receive income from or are
named as a Director
ked am I and how likely are they to not pay out? Like I said it's the other guy's fault anyway. Edited by BJG1 on Thursday 8th October 20:39
I've had some rotten luck! Neither of the crashes were my fault and I was 90 miles away from the last one!TwigtheWonderkid said:
There is no extra premium due, as the amount he was charged at renewal was the correct amount based on the correct info at the time. As it's an annual contract, you have no obligation to tell them about points accrued mid term until next renewal. Some insurers ask to be told as and when, but that's only in case you forget at next renewal. They will never charge you extra mid term for convictions picked up since last renewal.
So basically OP, you've got nothing to worry about.
Cheers. Only other worry is that I amended the policy after I got the points, to add my friend and didn't mention the points (because I didn't know I had them). So basically OP, you've got nothing to worry about.
The new ones have been applied and were when I sent my licence off in July.
I guess I went the wrong way about making the claim and should have just dealt with the other guy's insurance. Instead I emailed mine, they've arranged collection of the car already and taken it to my preferred garage.
I guess I went the wrong way about making the claim and should have just dealt with the other guy's insurance. Instead I emailed mine, they've arranged collection of the car already and taken it to my preferred garage.
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