parking ticket in own apartment space

[WCZ]

I own an apartment with an underground car parking space, it's a new build in the city center and at the time there was no parking enforcement company in place.

Fast forward 5 months suddenly the management company employs a parking management company and asks everyone to apply for permits. Within the first week of it going live I received a PCN for not displaying a permit.

After trawling a few forums I checked my car parking lease and it makes absolutely no reference for any requirement to display a permit - it is my land after all!

I appealed directly to the company and it was rejected so I've appealed with POPLA (I attached a pdf version of my lease too) and now have received a reply from the parking company stating:

"We are in possession of a signed agreement with the landowner. The attached agreement (actual contract produced and not merely a witness statement) clearly shows that we have the appropriate authorisation to enforce the notices issued at the site. The BPA have issued the following statement: “The contract incorporates the elements that we require in our Code of Practice. It can be clearly seen the contract has been signed to the effect that UK Parking Patrol have the authority to take legal action against the driver or the keeper”.

what is this agreement? - I can't see any attached documents they have and can this document really take the legal high ground over the actual parking lease ?

[WCZ]

stuttgartmetal said:

Yes

[WCZ]

marshalla said:

Do you own the freehold ?

nope, it's leasehold

I've started a thread on pepipoo!

[WCZ]

surveyor said:

Did you have a permit in your window and why not, if not?

You need to read the Lease to discover whether the management company have the right to put any sort of parking control in place. I'd be surprised if they did not.

Let's go back to basics also. These contracts cause hassle, and management agents typically make absolutely nothing on them. They are normally put in place when tenants complain about their car parking spaces being abused.

I struggle to see what is so onerous about putting a sticker in a window, but I have seen those that do, and generally have no sympathy for them.

But the answer to your question is it depends on the wording in the lease.

Peppipoo may help fight on myre general grounds...

as per my original post, the management company decided to employ the parking patrol company on a permit basis after 5+ months of me living in the building - I was one of the first residents to move in. I hadn't received (or applied) for a permit yet or else I would have simply displayed it, i'm not attempting to be awkward here for the sake of it - I paid £20,000 for the space.

the car next to me had 14 tickets, I believe she was on holiday when it was issued (I wondered whether she was parked there without owning it but now the car is displaying a permit) with the attitude of the parking company I presume that will end up in court too

in previous apartments I've lived at (renting) the systems have *always* been that if someone parks in your space then you call up a number and the offender is towed away, I personally prefer this system as it actually allows you to park in your spot again.

I've checked the lease several times and there is absolutely nothing of the sort about complying with anything like this.

[WCZ]

creampuff said:

This has happened to me a couple of times before and each time, I've called up the management company and they have cancelled the ticket. OP, have you done this?

the management company laughably say 'they have no right to have tickets canceled' and have even sided with the parking company during the disputes!

the annoying thing is that even in their statement to the POPLA the parking company says (and I quote) "Whilst we do not dispute that the Appellant was the owner of the space when the notice was issued"

it's pure greed from them imo

usually I don't have the time to go to court to dispute relatively inexpensive fines but this is just so plainly wrong that I refuse to budge

[WCZ]

surveyor said:

If permits have not been made available then I would agree the ticket (as opposed to PCN) is not supportable. I would also support a stance that they should be providing you with a permit - not making you apply for something.

Without looking at your lease I can't dispute what you say about their being no option for control - however I would still be surprised if it's not hidden in there somewhere. It may well be worded somewhat blandly. I'll even take a look if you fancy a laugh....

Have you spoken to the managing agents?

the management agents needed to know my registration plate - though I have several cars and would have needed several permits. (there's nothing in the lease about only being able to park one vehicle either)

I'd send you the lease but it contains way too many personal details etc!

[WCZ]

HantsRat said:

If it's leasehold, then you do not own the land. The land owner owns the lands and leases it out. The land owner can put whatever conditions they like on their land.

I would just pay up and get a permit for future use. After all it will stop people parking in your bays that do not live there.

come on man, they've admitted that "we do not dispute you are the owner of the space" yet they're still pursuing for the money? it's completely unreasonable.

currently in the process of writing a letter to them as per the suggestions on Peipoo and continuing the POPLA appeal. a sadistic part of me wouldn't mind it going to court just so I have precedent for the future if something similar happened in my space again (permit falling out of view or something)

[WCZ]

herewego said:

Assuming you have a particular numbered space it seems odd to me that you were not asked if you wanted to participate. That way you could decide whether you needed to protect your own space from abuse or not. The parking company may not accept the contract on that basis though as it would be more work for them. If the spaces are not marked then obviously everyone has to be in the scheme or I suppose the car park could be divided into protected areas and free areas.

yes, we all have numbered spaces! many people here have apartments as secondary city residences - when the scheme was introduced (despite the '2 week notification period' whereby people recieved letters by post)and simply not present during the switchover, the amount of tickets on some cars was comical - around 10 cars with 5 tickets and one had 8-9 tickets - £6,000 just in fines! all of those cars now have permits on so were the legal owners.

[WCZ]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Did the owners pay them though?

no idea mate, i'll collar one and ask them next time I get the chance but I can't see the girl in the space next to me coughing up £900 for these scoundrels

[WCZ]

still awaiting the result from my POPLA appeal.

was talking to someone else in the building today who is appealing it and he said the management company is amendment the lease states that the leaseholder will allow the management company to do whatever it deems fit in a broad sense?

I looked through it again today and spotted this:



Could I be defeated here?

[WCZ]

surveyor_101 said:

Have you tried speaking/writing to your management company?

I would tell the PPC you own the space and are enittled to park there. You will not pay they will have to take you to court. However the beavis judegment has once again made it open season on all motorist.

yes, the management company has said there is nothing they can do.

annoyingly the PPC company acknowledge that I'm the owner of the space but are still continuing to pursue the fine.

I'll be taking legal advice within the next few weeks

[WCZ]

surveyor_101 said:

What is the fine?

think it's around £130 atm (can't remember how much was added by the debt recovery company)

[WCZ]

p.s I won the POPLA appeal (took them several months to have a think about it though)