Police Incident with my camera
Discussion
Yesterday I went to a supermarket. Walking from my car to the entrance I saw a photo opportunity & pulled my camera out, framed the photo and I may or may not have taken a photo. The photo I framed included the local Cathedral in the background, a bird flying above a Tesco sign and three cars in the foreground, one of the cars had a man and a woman loading their shopping into the back of the car. The reason I framed the photo is that I do a 365 daily photo project and so I'm always on the hunt for today's photo.
When I got into the store the man who had been loading his car came up to me and asked why I was taking photos. I declined to answer & he said 'fair enough' & left.
When I got home much later on I found a calling card from a policeman asking me to contact him regarding 'an incident'.
This morning I phoned the police. They wouldn't tell me what the incident was but they would send somebody to my house to discuss it or I could go in and see them. So I drove over to the station.
When I arrived I was asked why did I take a photo of a woman outside the supermarket. My answer was that I framed a photo opportunity with my camera but declined to answer whether I had or had not taken a photo. I was told that somebody from the police would contact me next week regarding this incident.
I mentioned to the interviewer that as I left the supermarket I noticed the person who complained possibly taking a photo of me and my car on their phone. I can only assume that they did take a photo which is how the police traced me.
Have I done anything wrong and should the police be following this up?
When I got into the store the man who had been loading his car came up to me and asked why I was taking photos. I declined to answer & he said 'fair enough' & left.
When I got home much later on I found a calling card from a policeman asking me to contact him regarding 'an incident'.
This morning I phoned the police. They wouldn't tell me what the incident was but they would send somebody to my house to discuss it or I could go in and see them. So I drove over to the station.
When I arrived I was asked why did I take a photo of a woman outside the supermarket. My answer was that I framed a photo opportunity with my camera but declined to answer whether I had or had not taken a photo. I was told that somebody from the police would contact me next week regarding this incident.
I mentioned to the interviewer that as I left the supermarket I noticed the person who complained possibly taking a photo of me and my car on their phone. I can only assume that they did take a photo which is how the police traced me.
Have I done anything wrong and should the police be following this up?
Nigel Worc's said:
It would appear you can, but why be an arse when asked by the Police ?
It's assumed that I took a photo so am being treated as guilty of something, yet they have no proof that I took a photo and from what I understand in a situation like this they don't have the power to ask. Please correct me if I'm wrong.Yes, perhaps I'm being belligerent in not saying yes or no, but that's my decision.
Sheepshanks said:
Of course - but it seems odd to invite a load hassle that could have been defused by a quick explanation.
And it won't stop - your car will have a marker against it now.
Yes, I see your point, but I already have that marker as a few months back I snapped a police car & a police officer went beserk at me. I said to her that what I was doing was not against the law and she said 'I don't care about the law' [Yes seriously, that's what she said.]And it won't stop - your car will have a marker against it now.
She continued screaming at me, simulated holding an iphone 6" from my face shouting 'How do you like having a camera stuck in your face'. [My photo of the police car was taken from a long distance with 300mm lens].
She said she would take my reg number & find out who I was and search faceboook to see if I had posted a photo of her, all the time screaming at the top of her voice. She was not in the photo I took & I told her that. She was extremely unpleasant and upset me especially as I'd done nothing wrong. If I'd behaved the same way to somebody as she did to me, then I would have been arrested I'm sure.
That might explain part of my belligerent attitude.
Edited by threespires on Saturday 30th January 22:00
stevensdrs said:
If the above is true, why on earth did you not complain to the duty inspector responsible for the over zealous policewoman you refer to? You are perfectly entitled to take photographs in a public place, even of police cars, providing you do not use the photograph in an illegal way.
I have to say that for 24 hours I did feel that way but decided it was better to let it go and forget it.In my latest brush with the law, I feel that the complainants should have been told by the police that they didn't have a valid complaint rather than being told that they would follow it up, thus reinforcing the complainants idea that what I was doing was against the law.
They could be in the pub tonight telling their pals how they reported a snapper & their pals will now believe that what I was doing was unlawful thus perpetuating the myths about photography do's and dont's.
JonV8V said:
Scenario-
Funny how the OP is probably sitting there feeling this is all an invasion of his person space and right to do what he wants yet thinks it's also fine to invade everybodies space with his camera if he so chooses. Legally everything everyone has done is ok, even the copper who had a fit if true, but that's not quite the same thing as being a good and courteous citizen to others.
It's also a damn shame you feel it more productive to come on here telling us but not to tell a police officer doing their job what you were doing. What kind of kick do you get from that?
"invade everybodies space with his camera" - It's a daily occurrence for all of us, wherever you go these days a camera is watching you. How many dashcams/store cams/mobile phone pics have you featured in this week. How about the dashcam in the car behind you watching how you drive, are they invading your space? It's today's world. Everybody carries a camera with them.Funny how the OP is probably sitting there feeling this is all an invasion of his person space and right to do what he wants yet thinks it's also fine to invade everybodies space with his camera if he so chooses. Legally everything everyone has done is ok, even the copper who had a fit if true, but that's not quite the same thing as being a good and courteous citizen to others.
It's also a damn shame you feel it more productive to come on here telling us but not to tell a police officer doing their job what you were doing. What kind of kick do you get from that?
"tell a police officer" - Because I'd prefer it if the complainant was told that they didn't have a valid case rather than perpetuating the myth that they have. Whether I took a photo or not is immaterial, at the moment the only complaint is that I held a camera and I might have pointed it in their direction. Whether I focused on them and whether I took a photo is supposition and doesn't alter anything.
SpaceCowboy said:
Out of curiosity, if you'd left your car and were walking towards the store when you took/did not take a pic then refused to provide the subject/not subject with any information, following which they left, how did the Police manage to trace you?
I saw them with their phone out & presume they took phone pic of me as I left, perhaps they showed to the police. So weren't they doing the same as they were accusing me of doing? Should I put in a complaint about them & their photos of me, the police would seem to have the evidence?
But then no offence was committed by either of us, so why the fuss.
>> Taking photos in public is 100% legal, so what is causing the caginess?
Whether I took a photo or not doesn't alter anything.
The police are acting on their assumption that I did, and whether I did take a photo or didn't is no reason for them to create this incident as I did nothing wrong whatever the actions of the camera were.
The complainant should have been told this.
Whether I took a photo or not doesn't alter anything.
The police are acting on their assumption that I did, and whether I did take a photo or didn't is no reason for them to create this incident as I did nothing wrong whatever the actions of the camera were.
The complainant should have been told this.
QuickQuack said:
Problem is, chances are that he wasn't approached like that but was instead faced with a confrontational and aggressive passerby. I'm not saying that 2 wrongs make a right, they certainly don't, but if there are no manners in the initial approach, then one cannot expect to receive a helpful response in return. If he was asked politely, I'm sure that he would've responded in kind and we wouldn't be debating this right now! 
That's exactly what happened. But I also agree with the many posters who say that I could have handled the 'wronged' person better. My only excuse is that with four front teeth missing at the moment, I'm not up for conversation at the moment. [No it wasn't a fight ☺]
Thanks for all your replies. It's interesting that many support my stance and many feel I acted badly towards the 'wronged ' person.
I agree that I could have handled him better, but even so, his complaint should not have been acted on by the police and I have no apology for my stance with them as in my opinion they are in the wrong by pursuing me and I am defending my right to do what I might or might not have done without harassment.
If I cowtow towards them then they feel they are in the right and the next photographer in similar circumstances could face a tug from the police when no crime has been committed.
I agree that I could have handled him better, but even so, his complaint should not have been acted on by the police and I have no apology for my stance with them as in my opinion they are in the wrong by pursuing me and I am defending my right to do what I might or might not have done without harassment.
If I cowtow towards them then they feel they are in the right and the next photographer in similar circumstances could face a tug from the police when no crime has been committed.
Edited by threespires on Sunday 31st January 11:50
daemon said:
AND by the sounds of things driving off quite quickly after being approached (assuming the guy didnt stand around for an hour while the OP did their shopping).
Not true, they waited quite a while outside for me to return to my car and I didn't drive off quickly, in fact quite the opposite.
hedgefinder said:
I have to admit not having read the entire thread, but from the little I did read and the OPs attitude and the fact the Police pulled him in for questioning does ...for some reason..... and this obviously is not an accusation....sorry to say it but it does leave me thinking -
was there a playground or school near the car park and does the Op have any previous interactions with minors.
No.was there a playground or school near the car park and does the Op have any previous interactions with minors.
XCP said:
If it was me I'd say 'yes I took a photo, here it is, what's the problem?'
Why be all mysterious about it?
Here is why :-Why be all mysterious about it?
If I did something illegal by taking a photo then I need to make no comment as to whether I did or didn't take the photo. It's up to the police to prove I did. I'm innocent until proven guilty.
But as I see it, I did nothing wrong but the police are doing something wrong by pursuing this investigation.
Why should I lie down and take it when no offence has been committed. This is the 4th time I've had police intervention from my perfectly legal and above board public place photography so I need to stand my ground.
I repeat, I've done nothing wrong, the police have.
PHmember said:
Can I ask the OP if this thread is going the way he expected. Or will he decline to comment simply stating that he may or may not have even started the thread?
Thanks for this - "The way expected" Yes, it is.
I agree with many of the comments condemning me & I could have handled the 'wronged' person better. Then perhaps things might not have escalated.
My gripe with the police is that I did nothing wrong and the 'wronged' person should have been told this. Now he might feel that making a complaint is the correct thing to do, spreading his story to his friends & making others feel empowered to complain about a snapper.
My stance and my reasons for taking it have been mentioned many times above so do not need repeating. But I'd like to share this story with you.
Recently I was in the pub & got chatting to a famous footballer about his black Ferrari that was parked outside. He told me that he loves the car but he is fed up of being constantly stopped by the police who question him on why he has a Ferrari.
Recently I was in the pub & got chatting to a famous footballer about his black Ferrari that was parked outside. He told me that he loves the car but he is fed up of being constantly stopped by the police who question him on why he has a Ferrari.
Rovinghawk said:
OP was bolshy, by his own admission. I have news for you- he's allowed to do that.
He has the right to refuse to answer & nobody has the right to penalise or inconvenience him in any way, shape or form without reasonable grounds to do so. No inference may be drawn from someone's insistence on their legal rights.
Thank you, absolutely correct. He has the right to refuse to answer & nobody has the right to penalise or inconvenience him in any way, shape or form without reasonable grounds to do so. No inference may be drawn from someone's insistence on their legal rights.
Devil2575 said:
Indeed.
If you've done nothing wrong then stop acting like a knobhead with all this "I may or may not have taken a picture"
Are you a Freeman of the land?
Why? If you've done nothing wrong then stop acting like a knobhead with all this "I may or may not have taken a picture"
Are you a Freeman of the land?
Whether I did or didn't take a picture doesn't change anything. The only complaint the people have is that they thought I might be taking a photo. This does not give them the right to approach me in a very aggressive manner and ask why I'm taking photos. Also, this is not a valid police-involving complaint as I have not done anything wrong, photo taken or not. So the police should have dismissed their complaint.
See my next post to add another dimension to this story.
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