New TSRGD REGS out (speed repeaters)

[anonymous-user]

Just a heads up on the old repeater sign chestnut etc
http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/5013.html#.dpu...

[anonymous-user]

All pretty sensible stuff, nothing to panic about IMO.

Streetlights present = 30, ergo no repeaters needed, the limit is obvious. No change to this rule. Non-lit 30mph areas will, IMO, still have repeaters as they do now.

20 zones - contain "calming" measures, and are in places with an average traffic speed of sub-24mph (when pre-20mph), so hardly likely to catch anyone out unless driving like a dick.

40/50/NSL - repeaters will be used as appropriate - more will go up if there is a history of non-compliance, if the road is self-enforcing due to bends etc then why add to the sign clutter?

(The people who determine where signs go are not in bed with the SCPs, the Police, etc.)

The changes give the option to reduce repeater use, they don't outlaw using them altogether. If there is an issue, and/or an appeal, then the number of repeaters will be looked at and judged whether or not there are too few. There will be independent safety auditors who will look at the number of repeaters, both at design stage, and once installed. If an existing repeater gets hit and knocked down, it will still be replaced as historically the road has been assessed as needing repeaters.

The illumination requirements for signs are common sense. Adhering to the old regs saw illuminated signs in places they really didn't need to be, and all the issues that surround it (power supply etc).

The new regs are going to be an improvement, definitely.

[anonymous-user]

Yeah ok then.

Remove your paranoia. At 6am tomorrow, they won't be driving round removing repeaters just to catch you out or make you crash.

ETA to remove an unnecessary word.

ETA2 - I never said bends would be used to control speed - but (as an example) what benefit is there in having a repeater for NSL 15m before a corner with chevrons, just because the old regs say that repeaters are every 350m, and that is where 350m from the last one falls? That's the kind of situation it's talking about.

Edited by OpulentBob on Thursday 21st April 09:49

[anonymous-user]

V8 Fettler said:

OpulentBob said:

Yeah ok then.

Remove your paranoia. At 6am tomorrow morning, they won't be driving round removing repeaters just to catch you out or make you crash.

But "they" won't be replacing or maintaining existing repeaters. Nothing paranoid about wanting a consistently level playing field.

If a repeater gets knocked down, and it's in an area that needs it (such as if it's a part of a system of repeaters), then it will be replaced. Do some investigation - talk to your local highways department and find out their policy on it. My clients policy is to carry on replacing any damaged repeaters, and installing them where necessary - using a similar determination criteria to 20mph zones. The only real change is to the illumination of signs, which will have an ambient/residual (I forget the terminology they use) light assessment after sun down.

We've been aware of these changes for a while and are quite prepared for them, don't worry.

[anonymous-user]

V8 Fettler said:

Who is "we"?

People in the industry who use these documents day in, day out without a problem and without killing anyone and therefore without ending up in court defending ourselves. I know you have an issue with highways departments, you are like a stuck record - to be honest it just seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about it. I'm happy and confident they will work for 99.9% of the situations 99.9% of the time, I think panicking about them is misplaced and an over-reaction.

Just anecdotally, when was the last time you were done for speeding, and was it because there were no repeaters? I've been caught speeding three times in my life, none were due to a lack of repeaters... (I know, not a comprehensive data analysis session but just to see if it would affect you, given your driving history.)

[anonymous-user]

OpulentBob said:

People in the industry who use these documents day in, day out without a problem and without killing anyone and therefore without ending up in court defending ourselves.

I have no 'training' in TSRGD just picked a lot up working with an excellent chap with many years experience and a detailed hawkeye knowledge and memory of the "legislation". So what makes it even more worrying is that with my lack of knowledge that I can look at a "consultants" drawing for a new road signage scheme in passing and the first thing I notice is they are using colours and symbols that went out in 2002 or after scheduled savings or just change signs like for like etc when they are patently wrong or the regs have changed or they "design to suit" without a relevant departure and special authorisation in place therefore making it 'unlawful', they are all over the place.
I can't remember the name offhand but there is (or was) a website promoted by an ex traffic BIB offering a service to 'sue for compo' or 'get you off if you hit an 'unlawfully' placed sign.