Employer claiming overtaken annual leave

[JZZ30]

Situation as follows: -

Job started 2012. Standard holiday entitlement of 23 days. 24.5 days agreed at start due to previous service. ('97-'04, 2008, 2011)

This had increased to 27 days for 2015/16. All 27 days holiday requested and authorised.
Notice given (4weeks) to finish 28th February.

Before notice given 24 days had been taken. 3 were due in March.

Pulled into office by manager and told 4 days too many holidays taken. Need paid back. Nothing agreed, nothing signed, end of conversation.

Final pay should have been unsociable hours. This was withheld (600 quid net). Queried, told holidays should only have been 24 as previous service didn't count & pro rata to notice being handed in at end January would be 20 days due.

Further letter received asking for another 300 quid due to overpayment.

What is the legal position on just not paying wages without agreement?
Do the previous years holidays set precedent?
That's the biggest worry as it has implications in new post.

[JZZ30]

Same overall employer, different district.
Employer is NHS. Scotland if it makes a difference.

[JZZ30]

Yeah OK, RTFM!
Contract says 23 days basic rising after 5 years to 24.5 days and again after 10 years to 27.

Since notice given, they seem to have decided previous service does not count. Nothing in contract about continuous or broken service.

Edit. I'll dig out the contract again, it complicated a bit in that it refers to holiday entitlement for a standard 5 day week. The above is based on 3 long (12.5 hr) days a week.

Edited by JZZ30 on Wednesday 27th April 08:02

[JZZ30]

snobetter said:

For us this would have to be approved by higher management, HR, recruitment and management accountant for the department. In short, a long paper trail. If your situation happened here, either the manager has gone off the books to fiddle giving you an extra couple of days for the last few years, or he did it properly and there would be a record.
Proving what you've taken previously might not help without proof that you were entitled to it. HR are not your friends.
Let me know if there's anything more useful I can help with.

Thanks for the reply.

This is my worry, that one managers 'discretion' may not hold tight. So, the previous granted and taken holidays may not set precedent, I was hoping for that angle to make it all a little easier.

4rephill said:

According to section 12.4 of the NHS Terms and Conditions of Service Handbook: (From: http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/Employers/Docu... ) :

Section 12: Contractual continuity of service


Re-appointment of previous NHS employees

12.4:"On returning to NHS employment, a previous period or periods of NHS service will be counted towards the employee’s entitlement to annual leave."

Again, Thanks. I'm off to have a read through that.

rs990 said:

Out of interest, do you have a contract with the NHS or a third party? It's been a while since I was there, but the standard entitlement in NHS Scotland was 27 days + 8 Public holidays, rising to 29+8 after 5 years and 33+8 after 10 years.

Sorry, not explained well. the days I'm talking about are based on a 3 long day week. It should work out roughly the same if converted to 5 day week.

BlueHave said:

Your face no longer fits. If they were authorised by HR then I'd tell them to whistle for it.

I should have said, It's a query on behalf of my other half - I'm a powerful company director and have no issues with holidays self employed and take whatever holidays I please, I just don't get paid!

The trouble with telling them to whistle is, they have already just taken a big chunk of it.

Also, there was a Union question - Yes, a member. Have never found them particularly useful thus far, but may need to approach them.