Insurance Woes - Feeling let down

[Jayho]

Hi all,

A little bit of background about a recent Collision I had.

I was returning home from my brothers one night when I was clipped as I was going round a roundabout. It is a 2 lane roundabout and I was in the right hand lane as I was going straight, which on this particular roundabout it allowed. They had entered the roundabout from the next entrance (one after myself). As I was coming off my exit, they had clipped the rear passenger wheel arch as they, I presume, was going straight.

When I was clipped the other driver had driven off, I saw the direction at which they were travelling so caught up with them to get their details. At the time I was very calm and had given them the benefit that they may have been in shock and their reaction was to drive off. When I was getting their insurance details I realised that there was a strong smell of alcohol emitting from their breath and they were slurring their words and stumbling. I enquired to see if they had been drinking, which was first met with denial then admittance. At this moment I informed them that due to them having had alcohol I must phone the police. As I was phoning the police the driver had entered their car and driven off. I decided that pursuing them would be more dangerous, and just continued my call with the authorities.

Unfortunately, a couple of days later, I got a call from the police notifying me that they had not caught them on the night.

No worries I thought, I'll just let insurance do the job, that's what I pay them for. Insurance company were very much agreeing that regardless of them being drunk or not, they were in the wrong. They then passed me to a accident claim company to sort it out.

I just got a phone call from the Accident Claim company informing me that the other party has denied liability, and suggested that I had caused the accident by switching lanes on the roundabout. First off, I do not remember switching lanes at all. The only point where I would have been making any corrective measures was when I realised she had pulled out, then maybe I would have made a slight adjustment to try and avoid (which never happened). They have also suggested that other than the front end damage (which is where their vehicle collided with my rear passenger side), there is also rear end damage caused by myself. I have stressed to the Accident Claims company that I only suffered the rear passenger side damage, and that I had no other contact with the other vehicle.

Now the Accident Claims company has suggested that because there is no independent witnesses, it would likely go 50/50, and they are contemplating on passing me back to my own insurers to deal with that.

From what I understand though, regardless of her versions of events, the damage to my vehicle can only be caused by her front contacting my rear. Furthermore, even if I did change lanes on the roundabout, I was already on the roundabout before she entered, therefore had right of way.

From the pistonheads experience, my question now is, should this go back to my insurance company then how likely is it going to go to 50/50 and are there any course of actions which I can take to escalate this?

[Jayho]

TooMany2cvs said:

Take a step back, and lose the personal involvement for a minute.

A very minor bingle on a two-lane roundabout, with one car nudging the rear arch of the other car.
No witnesses.
Driver A says driver B pulled out into them.
Driver B says driver A changed lanes into them.
Driver A says driver B smelt of alcohol. Driver B (presumably) denies that, and there was no police report anyway, apart from a record of a phone call making the claim.

And... that's it. 100% of everything that there actually is.

You can see why 50/50 is being talked about, right...?

I completely understand as to why they would content is my word vs theirs.

But the damage to both vehicles don't seem to be consistent with their versions of events then? The only damage during the time was their front end on their Vehicle.

We had entered the roundabout from different entrances. I had right of way during this time. I was already navigating the roundabout when they had attempted to go straight on.

I fully understand that in some logical way, 50/50 would be the case here. But again, the areas of damage to both vehicles and the highway code should dictate that



Here is a sketch of the incident using google view.

If this does go 50/50 I will feel completely let down by the insurance company.

[Jayho]

But surely, regardless of if I had switched lanes or not, I had complete right of way as I was already on the roundabout and she was joining?

If this goes 50/50 I will feel incredibly let down by the law and the insurance companies. I know that they will be trying to minimize financial costs and time. But this will only minimize their costs at the cost of me financially.

What's worse is that if she had been the innocent party in this, surely she wouldn't have driven off from the accident.

But the general consensus on this forum seems to be that it will go 50/50, so I better prepare for such a call from the Insurance Co.

[Jayho]

I fully appreciate all the replies so far.

I do understand that many have indicated that there is a very high chance of it going 50/50.

In terms of me having being able to avoid this collision. Playing back in my mind, I really doubt I could have done any different other than being on the left hand lane from the start and having her hit me earlier.

I will be in touch with my own insurance company very soon and hopefully they'll be more helpful.

In all honesty, as soon as I realised she was drunk, the damage to my car became less relevant to me at the time. The last thing I wanted was for her to continue driving that night and possibly causing more damage.

[Jayho]

xjay1337 said:

Could you not have citezens arrested the drunk man?
haha.

http://findlaw.co.uk/law/government/civil_rights/c...

As for your insurance issue, I would fight it personally. Don't let them get away with it, scumbags. A video / photo of the evenings fun would have helped as well probably. I would always take photos all around the car to show the damage.

I was advised by the officer handling the case that because they never caught her on the night that they couldn't do her for drunk driving. As there would be no breath or blood samples. So again, like this incident, my word vs hers.

Unfortunately I have no dash cam. Don't often find myself in instances where there's a collision or a potential for collision. I've had someone ram into the back of me a couple of years ago, but that was dealt with swiftly and easily.

I'll just let my insurance company take over the case from the Accident Management company and hopefully they'll be willing to fight it.

Just out of curiosity. If this does go 50/50 in the end, and I wish to not have my car repaired by the insurance company but repaired by myself, will I still have to pay my excess?

[Jayho]

xjay1337 said:

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

From reading it, the third party hit his rear 3/4 ... ?

If you look at the picture I was going straight on in the right hand lane, which I'm more than entitled to do. The only vehicle to my left at any point was leading up to the roundabout where there were cars signalling to go left. When I exited the roundabout, I had checked my mirrors, there was nothing there. I exited the roundabout on the right hand lane. The only assumption I made that day was that the car who was at a stop when I entered the roundabout, would have had sense not to drive into the rear wheel arch of my car. I was already fully on the roundabout, and in my opinion, made very clear my intentions. In all honest, if I was on the left hand lane, the likelihood that I would have been hit would still have been the same. Only difference it made was that rather than being hit on the side full on, it was the rear passenger side (for which I'm grateful for as I had a passenger in my car)

Now in terms of expecting a driver who was under the influence of alcohol to admit liability like a moral citizen. Well yes I did. I thought that given the circumstances of their actions that night, choosing to drive, that they would co-operate rather than running the risk of escalading this.

The only thing I do regret that night was the fact that I never managed to stop her driving off the second time. On a local social media group, in the same area there was a more serious drunk driving accident. The description of the car had matched the one which had hit me and at that moment I had felt incredible guilt for not having managed to stop her driving off. I can take semi solace in the fact that when the police officer phoned me back, they confirmed that the car which was in the other accident was not the one which hit me.

What intrigues me most now, is the fact that she's claiming damage to the front AND the back of her car. Which makes me question whether she had hit something else that night (hopefully not an innocent parked car).

[Jayho]

TOPTON said:

xjay1337 said:

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

From reading it, the third party hit his rear 3/4 ... ?

I read it as he turned across the left lane to leave the roundabout without checking the lane was empty. Therefore his 3/4 hit their front wing, as they were almost along side.

At no moment had I crossed the into the left lane. I had stayed within my lane the whole time. If you see from the picture of where she entered the roundabout and where I was going, theoretically, there should not have been anyone to the left of me.

Furthermore, I had checked my mirror before exiting, and at that point I had seen her enter and actually thought "oh they're cutting it fine"

[Jayho]

vonhosen said:

Jayho said:

TOPTON said:

xjay1337 said:

TOPTON said:

I am going to play the bad man here and blame you (op) 100%. You were in the right hand lane going straight ahead, therefore leaving an empty lane on your left. It is then up to you to make sure it is safe to exit the roundabout by checking your nearside for cars that may be in the left lane. It seems that you didn't do this, you assumed that as it was 'your right of way', nobody would be there. On this occasion there was. You clipped their front end when you turned across in front of them.

Using your mirrors instead of assumption would have saved the day

From reading it, the third party hit his rear 3/4 ... ?

I read it as he turned across the left lane to leave the roundabout without checking the lane was empty. Therefore his 3/4 hit their front wing, as they were almost along side.

At no moment had I crossed the into the left lane. I had stayed within my lane the whole time. If you see from the picture of where she entered the roundabout and where I was going, theoretically, there should not have been anyone to the left of me.

Furthermore, I had checked my mirror before exiting, and at that point I had seen her enter and actually thought "oh they're cutting it fine"

There was space to the left & she was in it (by the looks of it)

OK, and I guess since I had actually started to exit the roundabout, I guess the "avoidance measure" I could have taken was redirect my car back into the right hand lane and go right round the roundabout. But I'm sure that if I did that she would still have collided with me.

In any case, what has happened has happened, all I can do is let insurance deal with it. I do appreciate the help of the Pistonhead masses and the general consensus that it will go 50/50. I'm always open to constructive criticism in all aspects of my life so all is taken on board. I will no longer assume that because I've crossed a junction where a car has already stopped that they will not be going into the side of me.

[Jayho]

vonhosen said:

Roundabouts are notorious for 50/50 without independent witnesses or video.
They really are a place to try & practice what I outlined above.
(I take it I got the correct Google maps link above?)

Yes that is the correct image. There seems to be a lot of emphasis that she was completely alongside me throughout, which is incorrect. I was definitely at all points in front of her. When passing the junction she was at a stop and only entered after I passed her. It seems that for her to be alongside me she would have increased speeds dramatically too. But I'm done with being irritated about this whole situation. I am at peace with the fact that she is disputing it and that I will possibly be suffering as a consequence.

[Jayho]

Sheepshanks said:

Jayho said:

At no moment had I crossed the into the left lane. I had stayed within my lane the whole time.

From the streetview link vh posted, there don't seem to be lanes on the roundabout at all.

I'm concerned by you using words and phrases like "right-of-way", "my lane" and "entitled". It might be worth signing up for a Defensive Driving course.

Actually before insurance mentioned that she had disputed I "changed lanes" I hadn't even thought about the lanes. And in terms of right of way, it's probably the incorrect choice of words. I was always taught that when entering a roundabout to always give way to the person on your right, unless road markings or traffic lights dictate otherwise.

[Jayho]

Ok it seems that a lot of the PH masses will argue that I should and could have done a lot more than I did.

Im pretty adiment that what I did was completely correct, regardless of situation. A lot of these criticisms are beyond being constructive now. I now have the answer that a lot of cases simular will go 50/50.

I am actually lost for words as to me being on the roundabout and already decided what I was doing beforehand can paint me as in the wrong. But we live to learn.

Will update once insurance has been sorted. But at the time I will be logging off as I have answers and I'm now more educated.

Cheers all.

[Jayho]

TooMany2cvs said:

R8Steve said:

nitrodave said:

I had similar once and the fact that the FRONT of their car hit the REAR of your car makes it their fault. Stand your ground on this.

Send them your streetview diagram and get your insurance company to fight this, it's what you pay them to do.

Good luck

So if i reverse full speed into the front of your car it will be your fault?

Not to mention the subtle detail that it was the side of the two cars that hit each other...

Incorrect. Was the front of her car on the side of mine. Damage was the front of her car close to her passenger headlight.

[Jayho]

That's the damage to my car. Never managed to get pictures of the damage of her car as she drove away as I was on the phone. The damage which was visible was to the front of her car close to the passenger headlight.

[Jayho]

As I said before, I've got the answers I want and I'm going to let insurance deal with it.

I really don't have the energy to be sucked in to justifying my "Lack of reflex and decision making skills"

To be honest, I did expect some backlash and people poking holes in what I feel happened and to be judged on how I could have avoided any collision. Unfortunately unlike quite a lot of people I seem to lack the reflexes and decision making of a F1 driver it seems. I was wrong to assume that someone around me would be giving way the same way I was taught when driving. I will take this as a lesson and move on.

As I said, I fully appreciate peoples honest opinions and their constructive criticism. So thank you all for contribution to this thread.

What's done is done and I'll await insurance to advise.

[Jayho]

Mandat said:

Based on your comments, and particularly about having to have the reflexes of an F1 driver, it is clear that you haven't learnt the lessons from this collision, and are doomed to keep repeating the same mistakes in the future.

Irrespective of the fault or drunkenness of the other driver, it seems that you had plenty of opportunities to anticipate, observe and react accordingly, which could have helped yo avoid the collision. You need to critically analyse the events so that you can learn to avoid being in a similar situation in the future.

Have you ever watched air crash investigations? Nearly all air crashes are caused by a sequence of minor events and circumstances that combined together create the perfect storm for a crash. The same principles apply to car accidents as well.

OK fine, one last bite. I have actually in fact taken everything said on this post on board and will be practicing it as far as my ability allows me to (I am human after all)

I was incorrect to assume that the driver was not going to enter the roundabout. I admit that that is an incorrect assumption.

And on the subject of me not having checked my mirrors correctly. I had checked my mirror as I passed the junction at which they had entered from firstly. Then signalled my intention. Then I rechecked my mirrors again after passing the junction. After that my concentration would have been to navigate my exit.

Although I accept that there is more I could have done to reduce the risk of the accident, I do not accept that I could be held 100% liable in any instance.