No-show goods fitting question
Discussion
Hi,
Quick question.
I had a booking for parking sensors fitting 9am today, been booked for 2 weeks.
The parts have been delivered prior. The 'fitter' left me a voicemail about 9.30am to say he was going to another (emergency) job instead that he installed yesterday (!) I have booked 1/2 day off work. After an hour of messaging someone from the Company eventually phoned back basically saying they would fit another time instead. I've said to cancel and they collect the parts and refund. They are refusing to collect the parts (via courier) saying I have to bear the cost of the return of the parts. I have pointed out they have failed to supply the service agreed and paid for so they should bear the cost of the return, and strictly speaking I could charge them for waiting in for nothing but I wouldn't if they arrange for the parts to be collected and a full refund. They say no.
Do I have to suck up the cost of the return as well as having wasted this morning and waited two weeks for nothing?
Quick question.
I had a booking for parking sensors fitting 9am today, been booked for 2 weeks.
The parts have been delivered prior. The 'fitter' left me a voicemail about 9.30am to say he was going to another (emergency) job instead that he installed yesterday (!) I have booked 1/2 day off work. After an hour of messaging someone from the Company eventually phoned back basically saying they would fit another time instead. I've said to cancel and they collect the parts and refund. They are refusing to collect the parts (via courier) saying I have to bear the cost of the return of the parts. I have pointed out they have failed to supply the service agreed and paid for so they should bear the cost of the return, and strictly speaking I could charge them for waiting in for nothing but I wouldn't if they arrange for the parts to be collected and a full refund. They say no.
Do I have to suck up the cost of the return as well as having wasted this morning and waited two weeks for nothing?
I paid supply and fit, the goods were sent in advance. I have returned them today and had this email just now from them. BTW they told me the installation would take 2 hours. They are now saying 6. However I was told that over the phone so cannot prove otherwise. I have noticed on the review sites, any negative reviews of which there are a few are quickly met with a retort basically saying the customer is wrong.
The 'engineer' just left me a message yesterday about 9.30 saying he wasn't coming, he didn't answer his phone and it was 10.46 before anyone responded to my emails to the company asking what was happening. The response was they would fit that afternoon. I advised this wasn't possible as my car would be in a hospital car park. At this point they agreed to refund (after some arguing over) the return cost providing I used the lowest priced carrier who they would email and advise who that should be when the phone conversation had finished. They didn't. So I've sent back today for £7.24 and emailed advising such:
Thank you for your email.
Firstly apologies that your job was due to be delayed.
Due to the legal nature of the email I need to deal with that first so please excuse the length of the email.
For our retail side of the business it is vital we fully understand the law and sales of goods act inside out to protect our customers and make sure they are offered everything they are entitled to and that we all work to achieve that. The Sales of goods act is there to protect both consumers and retailers and we always work within this law, and more often beyond what customers entitlements are, we have never worked outside of this law in all the years of trading.
So apologies that your job was due to be delayed, this is something we try and avoid, but is not avoidable for our industry which is why we state an estimated time of arrival, it is only an estimate and is subject to change.
The installation you ordered takes approximately 6 hours to complete. We were initially hoping to be with you around 09.00 and finish by 3pm. However our engineer had to move this so was aiming to be with you for 11am and finishing by 5pm.
An installation date and time can be effective by any number of reasons and the sales of goods act does allow for this, they understand, that although frustrating, this is part of a normal working business. At all times the customer has the right to cancel and return the goods, but they are not entitled to have postage covered or any compensation paid.
The sales of goods act states that it is reasonable that a retailer has, should a problem arise, 3 attempts to deliver the service and that it should be completed within 30 days before a consumer has any rights to a breach of contract, however, and despite the misconception customers time is not a legal or valid item that can be claimed as compensation in a small claims court under UK law.
We would not look to take 3 attempts or 30 days as the Sales of goods act allows, usually we would just re-arrange and the job is completed. We do have to re-arrange jobs on occasions and this, although frustrating does not usually result in a cancelled order.
So to outline from a legal stand point, and not our stand point, no contract was breached, and there is no consumer right that entitles you to the postage or ½ a day’s wages. If you spoke to trading standards or gained free legal advice for example they would ask if you tried to resolve it with us first and re-book, if you stated no and that you wanted to cancel the order, they would advise you that is your right, but you would be liable for the return postage and have no rights to claim ½ a days wages.
So that is the legality of it and how it would be if taken further.
The 'engineer' just left me a message yesterday about 9.30 saying he wasn't coming, he didn't answer his phone and it was 10.46 before anyone responded to my emails to the company asking what was happening. The response was they would fit that afternoon. I advised this wasn't possible as my car would be in a hospital car park. At this point they agreed to refund (after some arguing over) the return cost providing I used the lowest priced carrier who they would email and advise who that should be when the phone conversation had finished. They didn't. So I've sent back today for £7.24 and emailed advising such:
Thank you for your email.
Firstly apologies that your job was due to be delayed.
Due to the legal nature of the email I need to deal with that first so please excuse the length of the email.
For our retail side of the business it is vital we fully understand the law and sales of goods act inside out to protect our customers and make sure they are offered everything they are entitled to and that we all work to achieve that. The Sales of goods act is there to protect both consumers and retailers and we always work within this law, and more often beyond what customers entitlements are, we have never worked outside of this law in all the years of trading.
So apologies that your job was due to be delayed, this is something we try and avoid, but is not avoidable for our industry which is why we state an estimated time of arrival, it is only an estimate and is subject to change.
The installation you ordered takes approximately 6 hours to complete. We were initially hoping to be with you around 09.00 and finish by 3pm. However our engineer had to move this so was aiming to be with you for 11am and finishing by 5pm.
An installation date and time can be effective by any number of reasons and the sales of goods act does allow for this, they understand, that although frustrating, this is part of a normal working business. At all times the customer has the right to cancel and return the goods, but they are not entitled to have postage covered or any compensation paid.
The sales of goods act states that it is reasonable that a retailer has, should a problem arise, 3 attempts to deliver the service and that it should be completed within 30 days before a consumer has any rights to a breach of contract, however, and despite the misconception customers time is not a legal or valid item that can be claimed as compensation in a small claims court under UK law.
We would not look to take 3 attempts or 30 days as the Sales of goods act allows, usually we would just re-arrange and the job is completed. We do have to re-arrange jobs on occasions and this, although frustrating does not usually result in a cancelled order.
So to outline from a legal stand point, and not our stand point, no contract was breached, and there is no consumer right that entitles you to the postage or ½ a day’s wages. If you spoke to trading standards or gained free legal advice for example they would ask if you tried to resolve it with us first and re-book, if you stated no and that you wanted to cancel the order, they would advise you that is your right, but you would be liable for the return postage and have no rights to claim ½ a days wages.
So that is the legality of it and how it would be if taken further.
Wozy68 said:
This.
I can't understand why the heck the OP just didn't phone them in the first place when the fitter was delayed rather than mail.
Are people losing the ability to converse now?
I phoned them twice at their offices and the fitter directly first and no reply (voicemails left) so emailed (twice) and after the second email got a response. I can't understand why the heck the OP just didn't phone them in the first place when the fitter was delayed rather than mail.
Are people losing the ability to converse now?
SpeedMattersNot said:
Vron said:
I paid supply and fit, the goods were sent in advance. I have returned them today and had this email just now from them. BTW they told me the installation would take 2 hours. They are now saying 6. However I was told that over the phone so cannot prove otherwise. I have noticed on the review sites, any negative reviews of which there are a few are quickly met with a retort basically saying the customer is wrong.
The 'engineer' just left me a message yesterday about 9.30 saying he wasn't coming, he didn't answer his phone and it was 10.46 before anyone responded to my emails to the company asking what was happening. The response was they would fit that afternoon. I advised this wasn't possible as my car would be in a hospital car park. At this point they agreed to refund (after some arguing over) the return cost providing I used the lowest priced carrier who they would email and advise who that should be when the phone conversation had finished. They didn't. So I've sent back today for £7.24 and emailed advising such:
The installation you ordered takes approximately 6 hours to complete. We were initially hoping to be with you around 09.00 and finish by 3pm. However our engineer had to move this so was aiming to be with you for 11am and finishing by 5pm.
I'm also sceptical of the so called 'engineer' status. The 'engineer' just left me a message yesterday about 9.30 saying he wasn't coming, he didn't answer his phone and it was 10.46 before anyone responded to my emails to the company asking what was happening. The response was they would fit that afternoon. I advised this wasn't possible as my car would be in a hospital car park. At this point they agreed to refund (after some arguing over) the return cost providing I used the lowest priced carrier who they would email and advise who that should be when the phone conversation had finished. They didn't. So I've sent back today for £7.24 and emailed advising such:
The installation you ordered takes approximately 6 hours to complete. We were initially hoping to be with you around 09.00 and finish by 3pm. However our engineer had to move this so was aiming to be with you for 11am and finishing by 5pm.
What sort of work were you having done that it took 6 hours to install? I'm assuming cameras and display not just the proximity sensors themselves, as I've fitted £20 kits in less than 30 minutes before...but then again I am actually an engineer, so...
Just an update. The goods were delivered back. They have since sent me 6 s
tty emails as I put a letter in saying i had notified the credit card company these goods were returned. Which I did by phone.
They are saying they cannot refund me now (but they urgently want to) because I will get refunded twice as I told the credit card company I had returned the goods. He is taking the view I have opened a chargeback which I didn't say and he knows I cannot do that until 14 days after they have received the goods back. He is saying basically unless he has confirmation with the ten digit reference number from my credit card company that the case is closed first he is not refunding. He has also said unless the case with the credit card company is closed he will withdraw his agreement to refund my £7.24 return cost.
I never expected them to honour that anyway once they had the goods back. As I've said before you can see they take this'customer is always wrong' stance by default.
So I'm gong to email him back today and say clearly a deadlock has been reached and I will be dealing with MasterCard when the 14 day time period expires.
tty emails as I put a letter in saying i had notified the credit card company these goods were returned. Which I did by phone. They are saying they cannot refund me now (but they urgently want to) because I will get refunded twice as I told the credit card company I had returned the goods. He is taking the view I have opened a chargeback which I didn't say and he knows I cannot do that until 14 days after they have received the goods back. He is saying basically unless he has confirmation with the ten digit reference number from my credit card company that the case is closed first he is not refunding. He has also said unless the case with the credit card company is closed he will withdraw his agreement to refund my £7.24 return cost.
I never expected them to honour that anyway once they had the goods back. As I've said before you can see they take this'customer is always wrong' stance by default.
So I'm gong to email him back today and say clearly a deadlock has been reached and I will be dealing with MasterCard when the 14 day time period expires.
Mandat said:
Vron said:
So I'm gong to email him back today and say clearly a deadlock has been reached and I will be dealing with MasterCard when the 14 day time period expires.
Your proposed approach sort of proves his point, does it not?ks? And that I have to tell the credit card company there is 'no issue' with this transaction (when there is!) and he has to then have that confirmed by Mastercard (personally) before he will refund? Like he said he would refund the £7.24? Clearly a man of his word.What sort of decent retailer adopts that attitude? It's a straightforward goods returned so refund within 14 days of receipt. They caused this issue in the first place.
I didn't raise a chargeback I never said I had, all I said was I had notified the CC company by phone that the goods had been returned and should be refunded shortly.
I cannot raise a chargeback until the 14 days expires after the delivery of goods. I know that and he knows that it's just another stalling tactic.
The credit card company confirmed what he was saying was rubbish as as soon as they refund the dispute (if there was a chargeback raised) is closed automatically so I wouldn't be able to get a double refund.
I cannot raise a chargeback until the 14 days expires after the delivery of goods. I know that and he knows that it's just another stalling tactic.
The credit card company confirmed what he was saying was rubbish as as soon as they refund the dispute (if there was a chargeback raised) is closed automatically so I wouldn't be able to get a double refund.
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