Ex being unreasonable about seeing my daughter... !!!
Discussion
Hi Guys,
I am at my wits end, I have recently split from my (now ex) partner. We have a 19 month daughter and we cannot come to an agreement on access!
She wants me to only see her every other weekend....! This is unacceptable for me, I cannot go two weeks without seeing my daughter! It would kill me.
What are my rights with regards to access? The ex has said that we will go to mediation, but I am concerned that she will just push and push to get her own way.
The access plan I have come up with is:
Week 1: 3 nights (Friday pm - Monday am)
Week 2: 2 nights (Saturday pm - Monday am)
Week 3: 3 nights (Friday pm - Monday am)
Week 4: 2 nights (Saturday pm - Monday am)
She does not work, so will have all week to spend with her and do things that she wants, but her argument is that I cannot have her on the weekends because this ruins her time with her.... SHE DOESNT WORK!!!!
Another argument has been that, my daughter was diagnosed with separation anxiety when very young as she was very premature, however, I do not believe this to be an issue any more... The ex is using this as a beating stick saying that my daughter would be hysterical being that long away from her...
But... Obviously there would be wriggle room (with communication) should this cause any issues with any events etc. I cant see this being massively problematic, however the ex has said no...
This is breaking my heart... I can't go two weeks without my daughter!
Also, I have said that I would still like to take her to Disneyland (the ex was going to come, but not now)... the ex has said this is not going to happen!!! It is for 4 nights, can she really put the stoppers on it just like that?!?!
I am fighting so many emotions right now, she cannot understand that we are both her parents and that I should be able to see her an equal amount of time as her.
I am at my wits end, I have recently split from my (now ex) partner. We have a 19 month daughter and we cannot come to an agreement on access!
She wants me to only see her every other weekend....! This is unacceptable for me, I cannot go two weeks without seeing my daughter! It would kill me.
What are my rights with regards to access? The ex has said that we will go to mediation, but I am concerned that she will just push and push to get her own way.
The access plan I have come up with is:
Week 1: 3 nights (Friday pm - Monday am)
Week 2: 2 nights (Saturday pm - Monday am)
Week 3: 3 nights (Friday pm - Monday am)
Week 4: 2 nights (Saturday pm - Monday am)
She does not work, so will have all week to spend with her and do things that she wants, but her argument is that I cannot have her on the weekends because this ruins her time with her.... SHE DOESNT WORK!!!!
Another argument has been that, my daughter was diagnosed with separation anxiety when very young as she was very premature, however, I do not believe this to be an issue any more... The ex is using this as a beating stick saying that my daughter would be hysterical being that long away from her...
But... Obviously there would be wriggle room (with communication) should this cause any issues with any events etc. I cant see this being massively problematic, however the ex has said no...
This is breaking my heart... I can't go two weeks without my daughter!
Also, I have said that I would still like to take her to Disneyland (the ex was going to come, but not now)... the ex has said this is not going to happen!!! It is for 4 nights, can she really put the stoppers on it just like that?!?!
I am fighting so many emotions right now, she cannot understand that we are both her parents and that I should be able to see her an equal amount of time as her.
HantsRat said:
Contact a family solicitor as they are the experts, not us lot on a forum. Also document all contact as you never know when you may need it.
That is my next port of call, but wanted to put it out to the legal guys on here as well as to they guys who have been through a similar situation.SpydieNut said:
HantsRat said:
Contact a family solicitor as they are the experts, not us lot on a forum. Also document all contact as you never know when you may need it.
seconded and be prepared for a long and costly fight through the courts. ask me how i know 
bottom line is *you* don't have any rights, only responsibilities. the courts said they are not there to provide equal access, only to ensure that the child has access to both parents - what proportion depends on the circumstances and they are interested in the best interests of the child.
so the bitter ex can make up and exaggerate upset/distress of the child, then tell the court that they really are trying to encourage access, but the child doesn't want to - too upset etc at the changes. and how they *really* are committed to mediation (but refuse to actually negotiate when you get there) - at a couple of hundred pounds (each) for a 2 hour session. the court then tells you to go away and work on your communication.
and when the ex breaks the court orders, there's sod all you can do about it, without going back to court and arguing as above - repeat. at several thousand pounds per day in court (paying solicitor and barrister etc), that quickly loses it's appeal.
what they're actually itching for, is to be so unreasonable, that you may be tempted to lose your temper with them - don't do this, not even raising your voice or swearing at their stubbornness - because then they run to the court saying how afraid they are of you and how they don't even want you to come onto their property (which used to be yours too) to collect your child (and mine did just that, despite no shouting etc - they were 'worried i *may* cause a scene' if my daughter was 15 min late coming out of the house.
18 months of courts and i still can't get the overnights that are written in court orders. so having to think about keeping the game going.
I pride myself on being the absolute best dad I can be and hate the idea of being a part time father because the ex wants to see me in pain!sugerbear said:
I am a divorced father myself, but I think that asking to see your daughter every weekend is unreasonable. Weekends tend to be the time that the good/enjoyable stuff happens so you will be getting all the "good" time whilst your ex gets the monday to friday drudgery of school.
You would be better off taking her one night during the week, having full weekend access every other weekend and then suggesting either a friday night/saturday morning or Sunday night/Monday morning.
Practically (unless you are a monk/nun) you will find that at some stage you will meet someone new and you may find that having a daughter in tow every weekend might might end up ruining the new relationship.
Thinking about it, you may be right, about being unreasonable... I like your suggestion though and may see how she reacts to it. Thank youYou would be better off taking her one night during the week, having full weekend access every other weekend and then suggesting either a friday night/saturday morning or Sunday night/Monday morning.
Practically (unless you are a monk/nun) you will find that at some stage you will meet someone new and you may find that having a daughter in tow every weekend might might end up ruining the new relationship.
this is what I have put forward...
I will have access on one mutually agreeable weekday evening (from 17:00pm – 08:00am), and shall have access on every other weekend (from Friday 15:00pm to the following Sunday 18:00pm).
Thoughts?
I think this is a compromise that can be built on and it is better (for me) than the Saturday - Sunday every 2 weeks that she offered.
I will have access on one mutually agreeable weekday evening (from 17:00pm – 08:00am), and shall have access on every other weekend (from Friday 15:00pm to the following Sunday 18:00pm).
Thoughts?
I think this is a compromise that can be built on and it is better (for me) than the Saturday - Sunday every 2 weeks that she offered.
SpydieNut said:
thoughts?
it seems reasonable and i wish you all the best.
realistically it boils down to what the ex will allow you. i have realised there's a lot of truth in the phrase - 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'. if she's anything like my ex (who i never thought would turn into this bitter, twisted person and use our daughter as a pawn) then she'll do everything she can to make your life hell.
it turns into a power game for them. they hold most / all the chips and unfortunately they not only know it, but have family and friends egging them on most of the time.
see if you can maintain a dialogue and discuss things reasonably - using a mediator if you must, but be prepared to take what you're given, or proceed to court and try to get more.
Thank you - good adviceit seems reasonable and i wish you all the best.
realistically it boils down to what the ex will allow you. i have realised there's a lot of truth in the phrase - 'hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'. if she's anything like my ex (who i never thought would turn into this bitter, twisted person and use our daughter as a pawn) then she'll do everything she can to make your life hell.
it turns into a power game for them. they hold most / all the chips and unfortunately they not only know it, but have family and friends egging them on most of the time.
see if you can maintain a dialogue and discuss things reasonably - using a mediator if you must, but be prepared to take what you're given, or proceed to court and try to get more.
I hate rolling over and playing the weak and feeble one though... It massively goes against the grain
I have put the terms of every other weekend and one week day to her to see what she thinks and I want this in writing... I have drawn up this agreement, anyone fancy casting their eye over it and see what they think???
Child Custody Agreement for Miss XXXXXXX
THIS CUSTODY AGREEMENT (also referred to herein as this “Agreement”) is made and entered into by and between XXXXXXX (“the father”) and XXXXXXX (“the mother”), on THURSDAY 7th JULY 2016 in KETTERING, NORTHAMPTONSHIRE.
IN CONSIDERATION of the circumstances and mutual covenants set forth in this Custody Agreement, and such other good and valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which is hereby acknowledged, the parties agree as follows:
WHEREAS the parties are the parents of the following minor child:
XXXXXXX born on 26th November 2014
WHEREAS the parties wish to enter into this Custody Agreement in order to settle the care and custody of the child.
1. LEGAL CUSTODY & DECISION MAKING.
The mother shall have sole and exclusive custody of the child and all final decision-making authority related to significant matters impacting the welfare of the child, including but not limited to, matters of education, religion and health care. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the father shall, in every case (except in the event of an emergency), be provided the opportunity to participate in the decision-making process as to any such significant matters.
2. RESIDENTIAL CUSTODY & ACCESS RIGHTS.
The mother shall have residential custody of the child. As such, the child will reside at the mother’s residential address, and the mother shall be entitled to child support, which will be paid by the father. In the event of the mother’s death or in the event the mother is otherwise incapable or unable to perform her responsibilities as custodial parent for the child, the father will assume all such responsibilities as custodial parent.
Notwithstanding anything contained in or implied by the foregoing, and subject to the below provisions pertaining to the mother’s access to the child, the father shall have access to the child in accordance with the schedule and terms set forth below (or as otherwise agreed between the parties on a per event basis).
The father will have access on one mutually agreeable weekday evening (from 17:00pm – 08:00am), and shall have access to the child on every other weekend (from Friday 15:00pm to the following Sunday 18:00pm). The only exception to the foregoing is as follows:
1. Father’s Day. The father shall have access to the child on every Father’s Day from 10:00am to 18:00pm.
2. Child’s Birthdays. If the father would not otherwise have access to a child on his or her birthday, the father shall nevertheless have access to such child for up to 4 hours.
3. Father’s Birthday. If the father would not otherwise have access to the child on his birthday, the father shall nevertheless have access to the child for up to 8 hours.
4. Vacations. The father shall have up to two (2) weeks of unrestricted access to the child, during the summer months, for vacation, provided the father works in good faith with the mother and uses best reasonable efforts to schedule such vacation on dates convenient for the mother.
The mother will have access to the child at all times where the father does not have access. In addition, notwithstanding anything contained or implied in the foregoing:
1. Mother’s Day. The mother shall have access to the child on every Mother’s Day from 10:00am to 18:00pm.
2. Child’s Birthdays. If the mother would not otherwise have access to a child on his or her birthday, the mother shall nevertheless have access to such child for up to 4 hours.
3. Mother’s Birthday. If the mother would not otherwise have access to the child on her birthday, the mother shall nevertheless have access to the child for up to 8 hours.
4. Vacations. The mother shall have up to two (2) weeks of unrestricted access to the child, during the summer months, for vacation, provided the mother works in good faith with the father and uses best reasonable efforts to schedule such vacation on dates convenient for the mother.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto have caused this Agreement to be executed and duly delivered and effective as of the date of the last party to sign this Agreement below.
Miss XXXXXXX [MOTHER]:
_____________________________ DATE: 7th July 2016
Mr XXXXXXX [FATHER]:
_____________________________ DATE: 7th July 2016
I have put the terms of every other weekend and one week day to her to see what she thinks and I want this in writing... I have drawn up this agreement, anyone fancy casting their eye over it and see what they think???
Child Custody Agreement for Miss XXXXXXX
THIS CUSTODY AGREEMENT (also referred to herein as this “Agreement”) is made and entered into by and between XXXXXXX (“the father”) and XXXXXXX (“the mother”), on THURSDAY 7th JULY 2016 in KETTERING, NORTHAMPTONSHIRE.
IN CONSIDERATION of the circumstances and mutual covenants set forth in this Custody Agreement, and such other good and valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which is hereby acknowledged, the parties agree as follows:
WHEREAS the parties are the parents of the following minor child:
XXXXXXX born on 26th November 2014
WHEREAS the parties wish to enter into this Custody Agreement in order to settle the care and custody of the child.
1. LEGAL CUSTODY & DECISION MAKING.
The mother shall have sole and exclusive custody of the child and all final decision-making authority related to significant matters impacting the welfare of the child, including but not limited to, matters of education, religion and health care. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the father shall, in every case (except in the event of an emergency), be provided the opportunity to participate in the decision-making process as to any such significant matters.
2. RESIDENTIAL CUSTODY & ACCESS RIGHTS.
The mother shall have residential custody of the child. As such, the child will reside at the mother’s residential address, and the mother shall be entitled to child support, which will be paid by the father. In the event of the mother’s death or in the event the mother is otherwise incapable or unable to perform her responsibilities as custodial parent for the child, the father will assume all such responsibilities as custodial parent.
Notwithstanding anything contained in or implied by the foregoing, and subject to the below provisions pertaining to the mother’s access to the child, the father shall have access to the child in accordance with the schedule and terms set forth below (or as otherwise agreed between the parties on a per event basis).
The father will have access on one mutually agreeable weekday evening (from 17:00pm – 08:00am), and shall have access to the child on every other weekend (from Friday 15:00pm to the following Sunday 18:00pm). The only exception to the foregoing is as follows:
1. Father’s Day. The father shall have access to the child on every Father’s Day from 10:00am to 18:00pm.
2. Child’s Birthdays. If the father would not otherwise have access to a child on his or her birthday, the father shall nevertheless have access to such child for up to 4 hours.
3. Father’s Birthday. If the father would not otherwise have access to the child on his birthday, the father shall nevertheless have access to the child for up to 8 hours.
4. Vacations. The father shall have up to two (2) weeks of unrestricted access to the child, during the summer months, for vacation, provided the father works in good faith with the mother and uses best reasonable efforts to schedule such vacation on dates convenient for the mother.
The mother will have access to the child at all times where the father does not have access. In addition, notwithstanding anything contained or implied in the foregoing:
1. Mother’s Day. The mother shall have access to the child on every Mother’s Day from 10:00am to 18:00pm.
2. Child’s Birthdays. If the mother would not otherwise have access to a child on his or her birthday, the mother shall nevertheless have access to such child for up to 4 hours.
3. Mother’s Birthday. If the mother would not otherwise have access to the child on her birthday, the mother shall nevertheless have access to the child for up to 8 hours.
4. Vacations. The mother shall have up to two (2) weeks of unrestricted access to the child, during the summer months, for vacation, provided the mother works in good faith with the father and uses best reasonable efforts to schedule such vacation on dates convenient for the mother.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, the parties hereto have caused this Agreement to be executed and duly delivered and effective as of the date of the last party to sign this Agreement below.
Miss XXXXXXX [MOTHER]:
_____________________________ DATE: 7th July 2016
Mr XXXXXXX [FATHER]:
_____________________________ DATE: 7th July 2016
QuickQuack said:
SickFish said:
1. LEGAL CUSTODY & DECISION MAKING.
The mother shall have sole and exclusive custody of the child and all final decision-making authority related to significant matters impacting the welfare of the child, including but not limited to, matters of education, religion and health care. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the father shall, in every case (except in the event of an emergency), be provided the opportunity to participate in the decision-making process as to any such significant matters.
Do NOT suggest or agree to this. It will remove any of your rights as a father. As long as you're named on the birth certificate, you have parental responsibility in the eyes of the law. Replace this with a paragraph that clearly lays out that you, as the father on the birth certificate, have full and equal parental responsibility as the mother and must be consulted on all significant matters relating to her development and future including but not limited to schooling and health. In an emergency, either parent may make a decision for the best interest of the child without consulting the other parent if it is not practical or possible. Do NOT under any circumstances agree to give up your legal parental responsibility or to anything which might restrict it. Otherwise she can go loopy and decide that she will "home school" your daughter and there's bugger all you can do about it if you're not happy that she's getting a decent education. The mother shall have sole and exclusive custody of the child and all final decision-making authority related to significant matters impacting the welfare of the child, including but not limited to, matters of education, religion and health care. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the father shall, in every case (except in the event of an emergency), be provided the opportunity to participate in the decision-making process as to any such significant matters.
Seriously, do NOT give up your legal rights as a parent. You will only regret it, especially if she's as manipulative as you say.
The mother and father shall have full and equal decision-making authority related to significant matters impacting the welfare of the child, including but not limited to, matters of education, religion and health care. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the mother or father shall, in every case (except in the event of an emergency), be consulted and given the opportunity to participate in any decision-making process as to any such significant matters.
zarjaz1991 said:
Certainly, do not present a legal agreement like that, written in pseudo-legal speak that refers to 'the child' and even worse, 'such child'. Are there likely to be other children involved in this agreement? No. Then drop the attempts to make it sound like a barrister wrote it, it will only wind her up and I'd be amazed if she signed it.
Write it out, if you must, in plain English, using the child's name. I still doubt she'd sign it, but you stand much more of a chance.
It was a template that I downloaded, as I am not the best at articulating myself at the best of timesWrite it out, if you must, in plain English, using the child's name. I still doubt she'd sign it, but you stand much more of a chance.
TheExcession said:
Piersman2 said:
You really have not a lot of choice as pointed out by lots of posters above, so play nice and be grown up.
Sorry to reiterate, and I've made the PH cardinal sin of posting without reading the whole thread.What Piersman has written is so true. You absolutely have to play the nice guy. Yes sir no sir three bags full sir what ever you want you b
hing fk of a we, how dare you deny me access to see my own daughter?You're holding 'bupkiss' at the moment (PHer Breadvan 'learned' me this phrase when I was right and he was wrong - but then or course he really did have to win).
I would advise that no matter how hard you want to slam her, you have to play the slow game. Do not answer any texts or emails immediately. Leave it a few hours, days even. Think carefully and slowly, DO NOT PANIC - you'll need some time for anything she says to sink in.
PLEASE do not send her your terms and conditions, please please please please do not do this.
From what you have said she is looking for a fight, do not rise to it. In the position you are in regarding your ex everything from you needs to be 'OK that's fine with me'.
Get a few months under your belt playing to her terms/rules/demands.
A final question from me - "Have you sat and cried your eyes out in desperation yet?"
zarjaz1991 said:
Vaud said:
Just don't do it. It's a rubbish idea... get proper advice.
Children are not things to write contracts for, and certainly not by frustrated parents.
I agree, it's a bad idea, I was just trying to mitigate it down from being an absolutely terrible idea really....Children are not things to write contracts for, and certainly not by frustrated parents.
surveyor_101 said:
eybic said:
I really do sympathise with your situation but I think you will be hard pressed to get the access you have said in your OP, I think the best you can hope for is every other week/ weekend for a few nights not every weekend.
I sympathize as well but my understanding is if you not married her she has got you by the Johnson, unless you go down the route she is an unfit mother, which probably doesn't apply to this case. One of the reasons I am looking to marry the mother of my children so I have rights should we part.I assume you are on the birth cert?
A child so young would need more contact than what she is offering to maintain and close bounded relationship in my opinion. My 2.5 year old has a very good relationship with the mother-in-law to be and she came back of 2 week cruise and found that she needed to get to know my little one again. She would not got to her straight away as seemed unfamiliar.
So I think weekly contact is a must! Good luck!
That's exactly what I mean, it would break my heart if I had to reacquaint myself with her every time I saw her
SpydieNut said:
surveyor_101 said:
I sympathize as well but my understanding is if you not married her she has got you by the Johnson, unless you go down the route she is an unfit mother, which probably doesn't apply to this case. One of the reasons I am looking to marry the mother of my children so I have rights should we part.
I assume you are on the birth cert?
A child so young would need more contact than what she is offering to maintain and close bounded relationship in my opinion. My 2.5 year old has a very good relationship with the mother-in-law to be and she came back of 2 week cruise and found that she needed to get to know my little one again. She would not got to her straight away as seemed unfamiliar.
So I think weekly contact is a must! Good luck!
i'm not sure if being married gives you more rights after a split or not, but i think you are over-estimating what rights fathers have full stop - have a read back through this thread. i hope you never have to find out.I assume you are on the birth cert?
A child so young would need more contact than what she is offering to maintain and close bounded relationship in my opinion. My 2.5 year old has a very good relationship with the mother-in-law to be and she came back of 2 week cruise and found that she needed to get to know my little one again. She would not got to her straight away as seemed unfamiliar.
So I think weekly contact is a must! Good luck!
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