another parking charge notice query.

[xjay1337]

Not sure on this one.

I am on a customer site in Liverpool on a new business estate (Atlantic Business Park if it matters).

There is a large car park which I parked in.

I came out to my car for a "Parking Charge Notice" stuck on the windscreen.

Inside the note says "parked in a permit area without displaying a valid permit".

My customer contact did not tell me about any permit requirements and while the bays have numbers on them they are not linked in any way I can tell to the office blocks (although I'm sure they are).

I was since told by a member of the business I am doing work for, that "their" bays were numbers X-X, not where I was parked.

What can I do?

I can appeal online and I have drafted the below.. any advice?



"Hello,

I am a Telephone Engineer working for <Company I work for>
I attended a planned site visit to <Customer Name> in Atlantic Business Park in Liverpool who have offices here.

I came out to my vehicle having a penalty charge notice on it saying no permit is present. I was not provided with a permit nor was any signage clearly marked stating permits were needed, neither were they any marked visitor / contractor bays.

You can verify my attendance to site with <Company employee>.

Contact Details Provided."

1. ##

Any suggestions


Edit to say: Charge is from "UKPC".

Edited by xjay1337 on Tuesday 11th October 15:10

[xjay1337]

I dropped an IM to my boss.
She agrees I should not have to pay and customer should have alerted me to specific parking requirements if needed. She even said she would deal with the entire thing on my behalf for me!

However, not wanting to be a burdon/little bh, I sent the above E-mail outlined to UKPC via their online appeal portal. Obviously avoiding any cost would be good if possible but I don't think I would be personally out of pocket if it ends up needing to be paid, but not sure.

UKPC may contact the client and drop it then with confirmation of my presence? As I don't imagine they would be very happy if the bill one of the customers they are supposed to represent.

Although I doubt that will happen.

Edited by xjay1337 on Tuesday 11th October 15:43

[xjay1337]

Register1 said:

Reply to them, asking them to send the PCN to the driver.

As you are the registered keeper, it was the drivers responsibility, to park correctly not yours.

Always contact them in the third person, ie, you are not the driver, simply the registered keeper.

Not a lot they can do in the long run, as you do not, and will not be naming the driver.

So post it back, from the registered keepers point of view, and ask them to resend it to "The Driver"

Not sure if that would work, but I had already emailed the drafted note above in my OP.

[xjay1337]

Ill post pics later but small signs not clearly marked. No receptionist in the building. No large clear signs about parking permits.

Looked like any normal buisness park car park to me.

Oh well. Im hoping it will be voided as i was there with tenants (and thus landowners) permission.

[xjay1337]

S11 thanks for your input btw, if you know the site.
The info previously will maybe be useful.

I went into Alaska House.
They don't even have a receptionist and there are no signs about parking or permits and no sign in book.

There were some virgin media lads on site and one of them told me, at about 3pm today, that the little hut next to the speed bumps is a security building and you need to sign in there.....if only it told you....

The ticket was timed at 10.23 and I must have gotten there at 10.21 as customer called me at 10.05 asking where I was lol and I was 10 to 15 mins away...

Are you aware if UKPC will drop the ticket as I had permission to be there by one of the companies leasing the building?
If not I will argue it on the basis of no clear signs on what to do for visitors.

Edited by xjay1337 on Tuesday 11th October 21:55

[xjay1337]

Hi Steve. Thanks for the reply mate.
I'll wait to hear back. I am hoping they will contact my client and confirm abd tbat will be that but sounds like it won't be that simple and will be a long battle.

I'll keep you up dated of course. Many thanks for your help so far, been a star.

[xjay1337]

Devil2575 said:

Why are you even entering a battle? Ask the client to pay? It's not your fight.

I told my PM.
I said I would not pay, bill the client.
My boss agrees. PM doesn't.
Company policy is to not pay parking charges.
If it was my own fault, I would just suck it up but I don't think it is.

S11Steve said:

Maybe the OP can confirm, but I think he may have been a sub-contractor, and not directly employed by a tenant of the building. Besides, this would mean paying UKPC then charging the tenant/client. It would pain me to pay those sharks, even if I could invoice it on to another party.

The tenants will have a link to UKPC in that they can whitelist vehicles/issue permits etc, but the UKPC contract will be with the site management company, Savilles, rather than any of the tenants or more importantly the landowner.

The tenant requesting a cancellation is still the easiest first line of attack though.

Also, if you were in a company vehicle, give a heads up to your fleet manager or vehicle provider, to ensure that this is not paid by them. UKPC will know which fleet companies pay up without question.

It's my own personal car.
I was on site working for my company who was paid to put in a new PBX.
On my appeal form I explained I was working for company X that was a tenant in the building and provided the contact details for the guy I was working with , who worked for that company.


Anyway let me try to explain from the top.



This is where you first turn in

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4788904,-2.97353...


This is a little further up the road

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4785133,-2.97285...

This is the turning I took

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4782739,-2.97242...

And this is the building

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4778793,-2.97307...


Here's the view from where I was parked (facing forwards in direction of the car being pointed)

from where i parked by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Here is the sign you can see in the picture

sign forward by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr

Here's the sign they photographed with my car in the background.
(the sign is the one you can see the back of, in the other photo)

parking notice sign by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr


On the building, as I walked in or anywhere on the front, there were NO signs stating that you needed a permit to park.
The building was, I'm guessing, the last to be completed, as there were lots of empty offices within, and the reception desk was unmanned, there was no sign in book and no instructions for visitor parking.

(I walked to another building on Monday for coffee and there was a receptionist there. I didn't notice any signs).

I parked at around 10:15 and 10:20.

The ticket is timed 10:26

20161012_100549 by Fat Bear Photography, on Flickr



As mentioned there were some other guys from Virgin Media and one of them told me, that the little booth in the 1st and 2nd photo's was a security booth and you'd sign in there. no signs anywhere to tell you of that.

Edited by xjay1337 on Wednesday 12th October 10:12

Edited by xjay1337 on Wednesday 12th October 10:15

[xjay1337]

That's fair enough. But it was not visible clearly, certainly not clear enough to be seen without getting out and walking to the sign) - there were no signs visible from my parked location (as you can see in the picture) and no warnings or notifications on the way in.

:-(

Edited for Steve's post:

Thanks bud. When they reply I will ask for a POPLA code and start a more aggressive appeal tactic and quote that case as well. I may need some feedback on writing letters. I've only had 1 parking ticket before from Southampton Council and that was my own fault (PAD, didn't pay/realise), and £30, so I paid it lol.

Edited by xjay1337 on Wednesday 12th October 11:04

[xjay1337]

There are signs, but not many. There were no visible signs from that side of the car park where I was parked, and no immediate signs when you enter the car park or business estate that state there is restricted parking (as you can see on google Maps)

Signs were not readable from over 10ft away and writing was very very small.

There were no visitor bays and no signs (anywhere on the entire car park, as I looked) saying visitors should sign into a security hut or anything like that.

If there were, don't you think I would have done something about it?

I don't expect there to be signs on every space, don't be daft :-) But I would expect reasonable signage to say there is restricted parking, given it is a business site that could expect visitors.

Edited by xjay1337 on Wednesday 12th October 14:27

[xjay1337]

Back on site...

I went into the security hut and the actually very nice bloke said that UKPC are contracted and actually cannot ticket a car without security's permission. And that they did not have permission!

He showed me paperwork of the site parking , the reason I was ticketed was because I was parked in a bay that was not allocated to a customer office.
Apparently bays are allocated, for example bays 1-15 are for company X, bays 15-21 are for company Y, and so on.

I was parked in bays which were not allocated to anyone and as such I got a ticket.
The security hut guy says lots of people get fined and they nearly all get over turned. He also told me that the signs were not suitable in his opinion and has been at site management to improve signage but has so far been ignored...

Oh well

[xjay1337]

Update today

Got a response.

Dear Mr X
Thank you for your recent correspondence in relation to the above Parking Charge.
We have investigated your appeal based on the information you have submitted and confirm that this Parking
Charge was correctly issued because there are sufficient signs at Atlantic Business Park warning drivers that should
they park their vehicle without displaying a valid permit this will result in a Parking Charge being issued to the
vehicle.
All of our signage is fully compliant with the guidelines set out within the BPA Code of Practice and we reject the
notion that it is in any way unclear or ambiguous.
Our Appeals process is now concluded, you may now pick one of the following options:

blah blah blah.

1. #########

There is a POPLA code.
What should I do to appeal / how should I further word it?

I spoke with the security on site last time I was there and they said they only reason I was ticketed was because I was parked in a bay which was not designated to a company. (it had not been assigned to anyone).

[xjay1337]

My work have said I can just expense it so I'll just do that.

[xjay1337]

I would love to fight it bud and I really do appreciate your help.
But I fear if I fight it and it goes up to £100 then my work won't pay.

It really does pain me to not fight it.

[xjay1337]

Its annoying because I knew I could fight it and won with your help.

I got it expensed the same day so no harm done.

They really are scam artits of the highest nature.

The signage was and is awful. Oh well

[xjay1337]

Corpulent Tosser said:

All require additional expense, just to deter/prevent selfish fkers abusing the parking.

Was I a selfish tosser then?

I suspect 50-60% of cases are similar to mine.
Then you may have 30-40% being people who actually abuse the parking
the remainder may well be technicality cases eg ANPR not registering properly or similar.....