Child seat legality...

[Hard-Drive]

Quick one on this. I have a 30 year old Defender 110SW. For non-Landy types, that's the "estate" version with front doors, rear passenger doors with three forward facing rear seats, as well as the usual back door into the load area.

I want to carry my 10 month old baby in a Joie car seat on board. At the moment, the vehicle is fitted with older style seats, which means that with him in the back, there's very little legroom between him and a passenger grab rail which runs behind the front seats, and I'd be very worried about crushed legs in a crash. I am going to fit newer style Defender seats which means the rail can come out and gives a far more satisfactory set up (second hand seat frames already purchased and shiny new leather retrim kit getting ordered soon!)

Simple question (regardless of the above I guess...) Is it legal for me to carry him in the Joie (forward facing) in the front passenger seat? Seatbelts are conventional 3 points and there's no airbag fitted. I'm fairly sure it is OK, and obviously if the 110 was a "van" style with front seats only I can't see a problem, I just want to ensure there's no "if it has forward facing back seats he must use them" rule.

Thanks.

[Hard-Drive]

OK thanks. It was the front seat/back seat bit that I wasn't clear on, however this seems OK.

His car seat will go either way, front or rear facing, however it won't physically fit in the back of the Defender, rear facing, with the current seat arrangements due to that bar I mentioned...it gets in the way (either way round).

I'll try rear facing in the front seat, although according to the manufacturers instructions it is perfectly OK for him to be front facing now (although rear is preferred).

It is a minefield alright (and already infinitely safer than when I grew up!!)

[Hard-Drive]

Guys

Thanks for the advice on the legality side of things.

With regards to safety, just to put into perspective, the Defender is not an everyday car, and the trip was a short distance one off. Starting work on swapping the seats over today (renovate the existing frames and chuck all the old upholstery in the bin) so if I do need to put him in the Defender he will now be able to be rear facing in the back anyway.

[Hard-Drive]

surveyor_101 said:

If the OP wants to carry an infant in 30 year old defender I suspect in a impact it will make little difference in such an old car.

I wouldn't use it to transport an infant end of! If the OPs enjoyment if his classic is more important than the life of his infant then thats their issue!

With all due respect, that's a totally ridiculous post which shows you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about.

My Defender dates from 1986. My best friend's dates from 2015. They are almost identical under the skin. A new Defender doesn't have airbags, side impact systems, seatbelt pre-tensioners or any of the stuff that you might expect to find on a modern design of car. A new Defender may have ABS but I think I can manange to drive a 2 ton car around without locking the wheels up every time I brake thank you. Granted one of the reasons JLR killed the Defender was because it could not match modern safety standards, however I do tend to feel quite safe in that vehicle thanks.

So, before you start telling me that my Defender is more important to me than the life of my child, perhaps do a bit of research before offering your "advice"...unless you offer it every time you see a child in a Defender! And if I, as a careful 40 something driver, want to make a risk assessment and decide that a few miles in a brand new seat facing forwards in a 2 ton car is probably worth the risk so that I can get somewhere my BMW won't, and spend a day of quality time out in the countryside with my son, then that's my decision and I'll live with the consequences if it all goes wrong. And, as I said, I'm mid-project changing the seating arrangement anyway so he can be rear facing but I won't bore you with the details as it might be a little lost on you.

[Hard-Drive]

wiggy001 said:

Normally I'd completely agree with a post like yours. You are an adult and should be allowed to make choices as you see fit. But the point in bold would stop me putting my daughter in such a vehicle in anything other than an emergency. I've had people tell me she (aged 3) would be fine in my Z4 but there's no way I'm going to test it out.

So really, you would not put a child in any of these?







If that's the case I'm genuinely surprised. It's all about sensible risk management surely, and if I was at the point that I wouldn't take a child out in a Defender, I'd probably never let him out on his bike, or take him sailing, or go anywhere near a horse, or on holiday to somewhere like Morocco where we just got back from yesterday. Perhaps as a child of the early 70s myself I'm just stuck in the dark ages and he needs a 1.2 turbo Eurobox, an iPad and Center Parcs...

[Hard-Drive]

Hugo a Gogo said:

point is, those Defenders, as butch as they look, are objectively far less safe than almost any other modern car in a crash

discussing which is the safest child seat to use in them is somewhat pointless

the safer option would be any child seat in any other modern car

OK, sorry, I thought this was PH not mumsnet.

So asking which lifejacket is best to take my little one sailing is pointless, as he'd be far safer behind glass on a London riverboat. Also pointless asking which kid's bike trailer is best, as he'd be safer in the car or in front of the TV.

Well, I hope despite my bad parenting he grows up to have a happy and fulfilling life, and also has the ability to RTFQ which was "is it legal to fit a child seat in the front seat of a car" not "which child seat is safest".

[Hard-Drive]

Again, you miss my point, it was around putting the child seat in the front seat of a vehicle if it has rear seats fitted, not so much the direction of travel of the child seat. Anyway, I am perfectly calm thanks, although facepalming slightly at those who seem to think putting a kid in a Defender is some kind of child neglect

Anyway, currently awaiting delivery of £800 worth of new seating for the Defender, which will mean he can be backward facing, forward facing, front seat, back seat, whatever.

[Hard-Drive]

Hugo a Gogo said:

front is fine, but you can't put a child in side-facing seats (such as in the back of some Defenders)

Agreed, side facing is madness...hence why mine is a proper station wagon (it's actually the blue one in the pics above)