Same Road, Different Direction, Different Speed Limit?

[ashleyman]

Imberthorne Lane, East Grinstead. https://goo.gl/maps/yh3JSabSp7u

Coming from the London Road direction it's NSL. https://goo.gl/maps/TsV2UH771oo

But coming from B2210 direction it's supposed to also be NSL: https://goo.gl/maps/ggq3osCgoxA2

But driving down there on Saturday, those NSL signs aren't there anymore. Only the road narrowing sign remains.



Does that mean that you have to abide by the last speed limit sign which for me would have been on the B2210 just before the left turning onto Imberthorne Road which is 40MPH https://goo.gl/maps/nTs8Gzi6tTn or would the speed limit be NSL in line with the traffic coming from the other direction?

I don't quite understand how it's possible to have different speed limits on the same road so this must be a mistake right?

[ashleyman]

Red Devil said:

Have another look. You'll find that there isn't one on the left either and both posts, together with the NSL signs, are gone.

Bear in mind that the Streetview images are over 5 years out of date (Jun 2011).
I'll put money on the removal being deliberate by West Sussex CC. If so, there should be an accompanying TRO.
Without a corresponding current photo of the signage by the bridge it's impossible to say whether an anomaly exists.

Here's the signage by the bridge from Friday night.
I've looked on West Sussex CC website at the TRO map and can't find anything related to a sped change.

Edited by ashleyman on Monday 14th November 11:34

[ashleyman]

Dr Mike Oxgreen said:

A single carriageway road is not permitted to have different speed limits in opposite directions, but a dual carriageway can.

Edited to add: Wherever there is a change of speed limit, there will (should) be a sign on both sides of the road. So there should have been a pair of NSL signs, each with a 40 sign on the other side. The fact that they've both gone, and the fact that there's no post on the right-hand side of the road in your picture, suggests to me that they've been deliberately removed. If I were you, I'd observe the 40 limit and check the signage going the other way further along the road where the speed limit changes again - you may well find that it is indeed a 40 limit now.

ashleyman said:

Coming from the London Road direction it's NSL. https://goo.gl/maps/TsV2UH771oo

That NSL signage is not compliant. There should be two NSL signs, one on each side of the road. There are indeed two 30 signs on the other side, so this must be the start of the NSL section - at least it was at the time the Google camera car went past. I would revisit this location and check to see whether the NSL sign has been changed to a 40; if not then the speed limit signage is ambiguous.

Totally get what you're saying. I didn't observe the 40 and went at 60. It was further up the road after overtaking people that I had the sudden realisation that perhaps it wasn't a 60 and was indeed a 40. I got home, checked Google Maps and then my dash cam and thats when I found this anomaly. I think I'm safe from any punishment but just want to know what the deal is with the speed limit so I don't get caught out again.

There are indeed 2x 30 signs when going over the bridge. If the NSL sign at the bridge isn't complaint then the same dilemma exists between the 30 and the 40. Coming from the B2210 direction it's 40. Coming over the bridge it's 30.

I've posted up a photo of the signage at the bridge end of the road which remains the same. 1x NSL sign on the right alongside the priority sign on the left. I imagine that's why there's no NSL sign on either side because they didn't have space for both.

There's no speed limit signs repeated down the road in either direction. There's no signs at the end of Imberthorne Lane when getting to the B2210 to change from NSL or 30 (whichever it is) to 40 on the B2210..

[ashleyman]

I phoned the Roads & Highway department at West Sussex council and they lodged a FOI for me, I should have an answer about this in 10 days or so.

According to the document if the road was a 40 then it would have needed repeaters, there's no street lamps so it's not a 30 so to a person on the road it could easily be mistaken for a 60. Coming the other way apart from the missing NSL sign on the left hand entrance to the bridge it's set up as a 60 (no repeaters) so you'd be fine to do 60 down there until the B2210.

Having looked at more footage from my dash cam, where the NSL signs have been removed on the B2210 end of Imberthorne Lane, the 40 signs on the back have also been removed. Anyone travelling at 60 down the Imberthorne Lane and then pulling out onto the B2210 will be doing 60. They hit the junction and there's no speed change so they'll pull out onto a 40 road, thinking it's a 60 as there's no signage.

All I did was phone up and ask what the speed limit was on Imberthorne Lane as the signs didn't make sense and I didn't want to breaking the law and that it's just bugging me not knowing. The woman I spoke too sounded genuinely concerned, said she couldn't tell me why the signs were gone and had no notes about anything there, she didn't even know what the posted limit should be so she had to do it as an FOI. She was more concerned about the signs being missing, but it not being signposted properly meaning people would be going 60.

We'll see. I'll post back when I get the FOI back.

[ashleyman]

Red Devil said:

ashleyman said:

They hit the junction and there's no speed change so they'll pull out onto a 40 road, thinking it's a 60 as there's no signage.

Unless they have also gone AWOL the NSL signs in Saint Hill Road on the opposite side of the crossroads are a clue that the B2110 has a different speed limit. What it doesn't tell you is whether it is a 30 or a 40. That would only be an issue if turning left though as in the opposite direction the NSL signs are only about 150 yards down the hill from the junction.

They are still there. True, it is a clue but it's still not good enough. If you exit Imberthorne Lane and turn left you could easily be travelling at 60. You'll have to wait until you get further down the B2210 to notice the 40 repeaters.

I turned right out of Imberthorne Lane and saw the NSL signs whilst approaching 60 as I was unaware of a speed change. It was dark so couldn't see those signs until I was already down the road and at speed.

[ashleyman]

speedking31 said:

Similar scenario here where NSL signs were forgotten by a resurfacing contractor and have been missing for about 3 years.

wow! Resurfaced and already a terrible surface to drive on.

[ashleyman]

Got a telephone call today to say that it was indeed 30 on the side of the bridge and 40 going out onto the junction for the main road. The stretch of road with the non-compliant signage and missing signage is NSL.

There's been work order requested to have the signs put back up as they've gone missing.

So it's an NSL in both directions.

[ashleyman]

TooMany2cvs said:

ashleyman said:

Does that mean that you have to abide by the last speed limit sign which for me would have been on the B2210 just before the left turning onto Imberthorne Road which is 40MPH https://goo.gl/maps/nTs8Gzi6tTn or would the speed limit be NSL in line with the traffic coming from the other direction?

What does the signage tell you?
Are there reminders? Are there streetlights?

You're a bit late on this one.
I'd also suggest you read the thread before posting.