HELP - sold a car and it was repossessed from the buyer
Discussion
I got a car over a year ago, and sold it roughly 6-8 months into owning it due to wanting a different type of car.
I have the receipts from the seller stating that it was swapped directly for the car I had before that.
The problem is, I did a basic (a.k.a. cheap) HPI check, and the person who bought it from me is (understandably) irate as it's been repossessed from them. They are now on their way to my house as their car has been repossessed.
Where do I stand in this, and what can I (or me and the person who bought it from me) do about this? One or both of us are now stitched up by the idiot who I got it from.
Help appreciated ASAP as this person is on their way to my house.
I have the receipts from the seller stating that it was swapped directly for the car I had before that.
The problem is, I did a basic (a.k.a. cheap) HPI check, and the person who bought it from me is (understandably) irate as it's been repossessed from them. They are now on their way to my house as their car has been repossessed.
Where do I stand in this, and what can I (or me and the person who bought it from me) do about this? One or both of us are now stitched up by the idiot who I got it from.
Help appreciated ASAP as this person is on their way to my house.
Update: the two gentlemen showed up. I greeted them in a civil manner, sat them down and we went through all the details we have.
We have compiled all the details we can on the owner prior to me. They have the outstanding finance details, e.g. phone number and policy number etc. which were given to them when the car was repossessed.
All will be chased up with the finance company and via the police tomorrow.
B*****y hell, this has been a frightful evening. All in all a fairly amicable confrontation.
We have compiled all the details we can on the owner prior to me. They have the outstanding finance details, e.g. phone number and policy number etc. which were given to them when the car was repossessed.
All will be chased up with the finance company and via the police tomorrow.
B*****y hell, this has been a frightful evening. All in all a fairly amicable confrontation.
poo at Paul's said:
Yes, ensure there are at least two weapons hidden in plain site along the driveway.
Jokes aside. Its not 100% easy to follow, but I take it you got a car about a year ago, and sold it 6 months ago, privately.
Did you buy it privately or from a dealer?
You say you did a straight swap for it when buying it. Is that right?
How much was the car worth / advertised for, how much was yours worth? Was the swap "fair" or did you give him a £500 s
tter for a £10k car?
Did you sell it privately and in good faith for proper value?
If you "bought" it privately, in good faith you "may" be ok, but the fact that Finance co has repo'd it means they think it has not been sold along the line in good faith ie, their hirer (your seller) did not have title and you were not an innocent 3rd party, hence YOu did not have title to sell on.
But if it was all innocent, then you should be ok.
What will happen is your buyer will try to persue F co and if no joy will challenge you and if you lose, you will have to persue your seller. HOWEVER, if ANYONE involved is a dealer, the buck will stop with them as they are deemed experts in law and should have known no title was available.
A big mess, hope you get sorted.
I "bought" it privately. It was a direct swap for my previous car, which I was loathed to part with but was keen on the new one, so gave it a fair swap. It was definitely fair, and I have a signed paper that says both cars swapped.Jokes aside. Its not 100% easy to follow, but I take it you got a car about a year ago, and sold it 6 months ago, privately.
Did you buy it privately or from a dealer?
You say you did a straight swap for it when buying it. Is that right?
How much was the car worth / advertised for, how much was yours worth? Was the swap "fair" or did you give him a £500 s
tter for a £10k car? Did you sell it privately and in good faith for proper value?
If you "bought" it privately, in good faith you "may" be ok, but the fact that Finance co has repo'd it means they think it has not been sold along the line in good faith ie, their hirer (your seller) did not have title and you were not an innocent 3rd party, hence YOu did not have title to sell on.
But if it was all innocent, then you should be ok.
What will happen is your buyer will try to persue F co and if no joy will challenge you and if you lose, you will have to persue your seller. HOWEVER, if ANYONE involved is a dealer, the buck will stop with them as they are deemed experts in law and should have known no title was available.
A big mess, hope you get sorted.
I sold it privately, in good faith, and in excellent condition (detailed it, had it spruced up etc. in my ownership).
The details given by the finance company show that the finance was taken out in June 2015 - that's what todays HPI check on the car has revealed. I think that's what settled the lads down the most, that I'm not stitching them up and that I've sat them down calmly. Had I approached this differently the outcome would have been very difficult. Then again - I don't have a guilty conscience here!
How does the title actually work on cars? The V5 is not proof of ownership (I've driven past a shop that says "Logbook Loans" - what on earth are those?!?!?!?!). How does one correctly go about obtaining the title to a car?
This has me worried as all my cars have been bought privately.
Butter Face said:
It's almost irellevant, the previous owner is responsbile for the finance and for it being cleared before selling the car. Whilst it has finance on it, it's not their car to sell!
They're just trying to wriggle out of it. fkers.
How do I prove this? At the moment everyone (seller and buyer) are making me feel like it's my headache and that somehow I should be the one paying off the finance. If this comes down to one persons word against the other then I'm likely to be hit with a large bill, despite not having done any wrong. I've been in this position before with a false / fake personal injury claim against me on car insurance. It's a terrible situation to be in.They're just trying to wriggle out of it. f
kers.It's stressing me out - I'm at work and can't focus.
Butter Face said:
IANAL but I don't think you will. In the eyes of the law the debt is not yours, the car is also not yours.
Proof would have to be supplied that you took the car knowing of existing finance and promised to settle it (which I assume will not be forthcoming as you state you didn't know of the finance)
You would also have to be proven that you sold the car knowing of existing finance and duped the new buyer which also won't be forthcoming.
If I were you I would take a step back, tell the new owner they need to deal with the finance company/previous owner/police themselves as really it's not your issue. Assist when requested but don't get too involved.
This is why people should do HPI checks, still baffles me that people will hand over £0000's without doing a basic bit of £25 due dilligence!
The difficulty is the time and hassle involved in all of this - I have to prove that I didn't know, which means it'll end up as one person's word against another, which definitely ends badly for everyone. I've been a similar position with a false personal injury claim against my car insurance, somehow my idiotic insurance company (Admiral) paid out £4k for the fake injury, despite my continuous protest. It's still impacting my premiums now!Proof would have to be supplied that you took the car knowing of existing finance and promised to settle it (which I assume will not be forthcoming as you state you didn't know of the finance)
You would also have to be proven that you sold the car knowing of existing finance and duped the new buyer which also won't be forthcoming.
If I were you I would take a step back, tell the new owner they need to deal with the finance company/previous owner/police themselves as really it's not your issue. Assist when requested but don't get too involved.
This is why people should do HPI checks, still baffles me that people will hand over £0000's without doing a basic bit of £25 due dilligence!
I keep getting missed calls from the buyer at work, the time and hassle this is creating is ridiculous.
The most recent update - they've gone to the police who have advised them to file a case against me, and for me to file a case against the guy I bought it from. Apparently it works "like a chain". No one wins
rscott said:
You say you've got paperwork for the exchange of cars a year or so ago - does that mention anything at all about finance or payments? Surely if you'd been aware of the finance as the person claims, he'd have made sure to mention it on those documents.
I have a piece of paper which says both cars swapped, signed by both parties. There is no mention of finance on there (obviously).Checking my HPI report, I've only got the basic information and not the full check which includes finance checks. This worries me even more
CaptainSlow said:
OP, this isn't your issue, the more you liaise with the buyer the more you'll be drawn in. Just state your case and end communications except if you get a solicitor's letter which you'll have to respond to. It sounds like the other two parties are trying to gang up on you.
As far as the finance goes, even if you did known about it, as long as you didn't say otherwise, either in the advert of verbally to the buyer, you haven't made any misrepresentations.
This helps actually - what do you mean if I didn't say otherwise? As long as I didn't tell the buyer then I'm fine?As far as the finance goes, even if you did known about it, as long as you didn't say otherwise, either in the advert of verbally to the buyer, you haven't made any misrepresentations.
I don't want them showing up at my house again. That would be problematic.
Butter Face said:
Does it say it doesn't have any or it doesn't mention at all?
Doesn't mention it at allDabooka said:
If you 'flipped' it then I could see how you could become embroiled into it.
Can I confirm that the finance has always been in their name?
Personally I'd also maintain some communications with the buyer, united front and all that (plus think how they're feeling). Ultimately they didn't do a HPI check either, and they're more likely to lose out than you.
What length of time of ownership would class as "flipping" it? I drove it to and from work for at least 2 months.Can I confirm that the finance has always been in their name?
Personally I'd also maintain some communications with the buyer, united front and all that (plus think how they're feeling). Ultimately they didn't do a HPI check either, and they're more likely to lose out than you.
The finance has always been in their name and still is. I've tried calling Barclays and can't get any information out of them "as I'm not the account holder". Why did they repossess from someone who's not the account holder?!?
I'm keeping communication with the buyer for now. But they are testing my limits with threats to call the police, giving me this idea of the need for a "chain" of police cases from them to me then from me to the original seller.
TooMany2cvs said:
Ah, the drip-drip of pertinent information.
So timeline distilled...
some time previously - the previous owner took finance out against the car.
1yr ago - you obtained this car, without checking for outstanding finance.
while you owned it - you were called by the lender to tell you there was outstanding finance.
6mo ago - you sold it, mentioned nothing, and the buyer didn't check for outstanding finance.
now - it's been repossessed.
The lender will certainly have a record of having contacted you. "I thought it was a scam, so ignored it" is not going to be the greatest of responses.
What value of car are we talking about here?
That's pretty much the timeline, give or take a couple of months. I don't have exact dates but will sort all that out when I'm back home today.So timeline distilled...
some time previously - the previous owner took finance out against the car.
1yr ago - you obtained this car, without checking for outstanding finance.
while you owned it - you were called by the lender to tell you there was outstanding finance.
6mo ago - you sold it, mentioned nothing, and the buyer didn't check for outstanding finance.
now - it's been repossessed.
The lender will certainly have a record of having contacted you. "I thought it was a scam, so ignored it" is not going to be the greatest of responses.
What value of car are we talking about here?
The value was around £12k
Is it worth me finding out how much outstanding finance is on the car? How can I do this - I tried calling Barclays and they won't tell me as I'm not the account holder.
I have been quiet as this has been stressing me out and also as I've been seeking legal advice.
From what I've been told, the buyer is correct about the chain. He needs to pursue me, and I need to pursue original seller. To save any legal fees and hassle on that side, it may be easiest for me to issue a refund to the buyer. This places me at a high risk, but it gives me the peace of mind that there will be no legal dispute against me. I'm then left to pursue Barclays and the original seller.
This also alleviates any case Barclays may have about me being aware of the finance and selling the car in bad faith (even though I didn't - it can't be claimed that I did).
From what I've been told, the buyer is correct about the chain. He needs to pursue me, and I need to pursue original seller. To save any legal fees and hassle on that side, it may be easiest for me to issue a refund to the buyer. This places me at a high risk, but it gives me the peace of mind that there will be no legal dispute against me. I'm then left to pursue Barclays and the original seller.
This also alleviates any case Barclays may have about me being aware of the finance and selling the car in bad faith (even though I didn't - it can't be claimed that I did).
TooMany2cvs said:
Yes, it can. That phone call that you ignored, remember?
That call was many months into my ownership. I therefore had the good title to the car - I haven't signed anything or received any notification of outstanding fees. Barclays won't even talk to me about the outstanding finance, as I'm not the account holder. Barclays won't talk, the seller won't talk. I just have the full wrath of the buyer against me. I'm speaking to solicitors at the moment.
sealtt said:
From the posts it is very obvious that the OP did take the call seriously and the finance is the reason he sold the car.
Again just in case you still haven't.. you seriously need to speak to a solicitor straight away, be 100% honest with them, don't try and twist things, just give them straight facts, give them the worst case scenario and let them tell you what to do. The police are very good at spotting devious behaviour so I'd be careful if I was you and get a pro involved.
I have been talking to solicitors today. They have said that the "chain" idea is correct whatever I knew (even if I had detailed conversations with Barclays - which I didn't). So their advice was to refund and pursue myself, as otherwise I'll incur legal fees and hassle from the seller side. This would be the case even if Barclays never had contact with me, as there is no contract between the buyer and the guy who sold it to me, so they have no legal standing with each other. I'm involved in this through having owned the car. Again just in case you still haven't.. you seriously need to speak to a solicitor straight away, be 100% honest with them, don't try and twist things, just give them straight facts, give them the worst case scenario and let them tell you what to do. The police are very good at spotting devious behaviour so I'd be careful if I was you and get a pro involved.
Some on here are implying that I sold the car in bad faith - I don't know what this counts as but solicitors will confirm. Either way, a refund is necessary if I want to stay out of court.
All this will be confirmed tomorrow. Lawyers are shockingly expensive!
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