Bus lane penalty (Manchester) - how long to wait for appeal?

[tigger1]

Have had a bus lane penalty in Manchester (Portland St, existing New Yk St, its badly signed - but that's a debate for another day!) a few weeks back.

Lodged the appeal via the Manchester council website (because it's free to ask for forgiveness, and because it's badly signed - arguably not a bus lane but a "no motor vehicles" road with numerous exceptions which the council are not able to enforce, maybe).

So, question is, the appeal confirmation says to wait 21 working days for their response, and if no response to contact them (essentially chase them to respond). Is there a time limit on their response? Do I have to do that chasing?

Logically, I will email them (already have a reminder set in the calendar to do so) because I think that not doing so would result in further potential wallet-ache - but wanted opinions on whether it's reasonable for them to try to lay responsibility on me to chase them to reject my appeal (which is what I expect to happen, given they fine so many drivers on that road each day!).

[tigger1]

10 weeks!? That's ridiculous.

My main complaint is that when turning left out it NY street, it's not immediately obvious to a non-local that you have to then IMMEDIATELY turn right off the main road - but I've also mentioned in the appeal that the road-markings and signage don't appear to be compliant with the rules for bus lanes, and that the council cannot enforce "no motor vehicles" with CCTV. I've resisted claiming to be "loading" (an acceptable exception) because I won't fib.

[tigger1]

KFP - yes. A terribly careless error. Not having been since the layout changed, and trying to find way safely out in heavy traffic, yes, had already reached those signs before noticing that I should have been going right (not straight over as in your second pic).

All the same though, those signs and markings don't (IMHO) depict a bus lane, do they?

[tigger1]

Red Devil / SilverFox - thanks for the info.

pim said:

The signs are clear no general traffic allowed.

Saying that it's easy to make a mistake because so many drivers don't take notice of signs.

Yes, as I said, now do it in an unfamiliar place in heavy traffic. I appreciate that my appeal is a Hail Mary (I'm an idiot for going through those signs - although I'm in good company apparently, they're issuing a LOT of these penalty notices) - the point being that the council cannot enforce a "no motor vehicles" exclusion, but the penalty notice they've sent is for entering a bus lane. Are those "clear" signs clearly indicating a bus lane - I say not.

[tigger1]

Red Devil said:

tigger1 said:

Have had a bus lane penalty in Manchester (Portland St, existing New Yk St, its badly signed - but that's a debate for another day!) a few weeks back.

If you check Google Street View you'll notice that Portland Street has changed over time.
In 2015 that section did have a bus lane - https://goo.gl/maps/okXMGnX5cz72
By April 2016 it had been reconfigured - https://goo.gl/maps/YZM1ME9b8QA2
See the video in this article - http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate... - (@2:45)
The current arrangement is not a bus lane.* The signage is for a general prohibition on motor vehicles subject to certain exemptions.
Hence the Diagram 619 sign with a supplementary plate.

May I suggest you read this thread as it for the very same location.
Check out the links. In particular the FoIA one pages 7, 8, & 9. That relates to a different city but the issues mentioned in the adjudication are identical.
AFAIK Cardiff City Council is the only local authority outside London which has taken powers under Part 6 of the TMA 2004 to enforce moving traffic contraventions.**

 * Manchester City Council are clearly attempting to enforce a bus lane PCN. It is interesting that there is no contravention code mentioned.
   This in itself is dodgy because the one for a bus lane is 34 whereas that for a Diagram 619 breach is 52.

 ** i.e. other than a bus lane which is governed by different legislation. I reckon Manchester CC has dropped the ball here.

If you decide to contest it (to the TPT if the Council reject your appeal) let us know how you get on.

Thanks for that info. Have already read that thread I think - the OP there "remembered" that he was loading...which I am pretty sure I wasn't! The stuff about York was interesting - and quite similar in some ways (although there the permitted times changed, and were hard to read). Even then, it sounds like it was a slog to get that properly looked at.

Glad I'm not the only person who thinks this isn't a bus lane though! It seems that Manchester CC will keep issuing these "bus lane" penalties regardless until somebody challenges it. Will have to weigh up the chances of successfully challenging it on further appeal against my free time. There's a weird principle at stake, despite me being in the wrong (argument about accidentally missing the signs until too late notwithstanding).

[tigger1]

Rejection received yesterday.

Refers to:
1) the vehicle was recorded in a "bus-gate"
2) ...this bus lane's lines and signs conform to the TSRGD 2002, therefore I'm satisfied that your bus lane ticket has been issued correctly.

Options are:
1) pay fine (30 pounds)
2) appeal to TPT (under the grounds that the alleged contravention didn't occur)
3) do nothing now and then pay lots more

I've just been reading a similar tale of a TPT appeal here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t9...

which has the adjudicator's decision in it. They refer to the road-markings not HAVING to be there, but that they should be. It then goes on to compare signs 619 and 953, and the inter-changeable nature of the two.

So, in short, I'm out. Another case of I'd rather not waste the time on something for the sake of £30. Manchester is on my shi*list anyway.