Crash barrier (Armco) garden fence?

[Liquid Knight]

Okay "tis the season" and all that.

In the last ten years I have had seven drunk/speeding drivers either crash into my front garden or very nearly.

As annoying as this is and from a personal point of view all drink and drugged drivers are the scum of the Earth and should be chemically castrated before they take a dump in the gene pool.

I think the idea of a lifetime ban for a second conviction is a brilliant idea.

The first drunk driver took out my hedge and dumped oil and diesel in my garden so I had to replace it with a fence. That fence lasted two years and I now have concrete posts and wire with Buddleia. One of these posts was bent last year by a hit and run driver who got thirty yards up the road to their driveway. The Police followed the trail of coolant.

Since the A17 from Sutton Bridge to King's Lynn has had average speed cameras the number of collisions in my village has gone up from a couple a year to sixteen since the cameras were installed (in April).

So I'm expecting an uninvited guess at some point.

Can I have an Armco style crash barrier as a garden fence or a supplement to my existing fence?

Are there any legal ramifications to using it?

I would need planning permission for a wall (and let's be honest unless it's reinforced it would be as pointless and a fence and when a car hits it a cluster bomb of flying bricks towards my home) would I need to with a crash barrier?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Reclaimed-Armco-Motorway...

I'll either weld it to the posts or weld the bolts to stop it being nicked by metal thieves.

[Liquid Knight]

KarlMac said:

Have you considered a gabion wall? Might be a bit more attractive?

Aesthetically speaking I think a crash barrier would be a more obvious deterrent.

One of my neighbors has railway sleepers and a six foot wide raised flower bed (basically a sleeper edged six by four foot earth wall) a van hit it and flipped over into the garden on its roof. I imagine a four foot Gabion wall would have a similar effect. We're only allowed four foot along the front.

[Liquid Knight]

spookly said:

Liquid Knight said:

I think the idea of a lifetime ban for a second conviction is a brilliant idea.

It really isn't as it just encourages driving without a license.
Most people will abide by a reasonable ban. I'm not convinced that many would pay any attention to a lifetime ban.

Six months in prison for driving whilst disqualified. At least in an ideal world that is.

There is always the hardship mitigation. "I could loose my job if I'm banned"

Boo hoo! Maybe you should have thought of that before drink/drug driving.

I've only had trouble from one insurance company but many will only give third party coverage if their policy holder is over the limit.

[Liquid Knight]

A few things to address.

1/ I live on a 30 zone road. (Some days I wonder)

2/ Manslaughter would be the responsibility of the vehicle operator alone. I have often suggested Causing Death by Dangerous/Careless/Drink/Drug Driving should be Manslaughter on the grounds that if I were Dangerous/Careless/Drunk/Drugged and "accidentally" killed someone with my shotgun it would be Manslaughter and a car is just as capable a weapon in the wrong hands.

3/ The previous drunkards and speeders have been mostly locals so intoxicated or not they will know there is a crash barrier there and in theory at least back off.

4/ There isn't enough run off for a gravel trap.

5/ The Council have got back to me. No I don't need planning permission but it would be advisable to consult my neighbors to gauge their opinions.




I like the Pensioners idea. Maybe some steel reinforced brick posts with metal I beams going between them could be as effective and aesthetic.

[Liquid Knight]

All that jazz said:

Liquid Knight said:

Since the A17 from Sutton Bridge to King's Lynn has had average speed cameras the number of collisions in my village has gone up from a couple a year to sixteen since the cameras were installed (in April).

I travel that stretch of road several times per week and there are no villages or houses along there so I'm not understanding whatever the point is you're trying to make about the speed cameras.

The A17 follows the old railway line that Dr Beeching closed in the 60's and has average speed cameras along it thanks to idiots like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRsp0nrv_w0

...if you turn off the A17 left at that traffic island (you need to be on the correct side of the road to do that) it takes you along the old A17 through the villages of Warpole Cross Keys, Terrington St Clement and Clenchwarton. That is the route those who want to avoid the average speed cameras take.

Edited to add the Collision map. Small red dots for single collisions, bigger red dots for multiple collisions or multi-vehicle collision.

Thanks to Google map and MS Paint all rights reserved.

Edited by Liquid Knight on Saturday 10th December 14:31

[Liquid Knight]

GSalt said:

Liquid Knight said:

Since the A17 from Sutton Bridge to King's Lynn has had average speed cameras the number of collisions in my village has gone up from a couple a year to sixteen since the cameras were installed (in April).

I live in the area, so can guess which road you might be on.. I can't imagine the drivers are avoiding the A17 on the basis of wanting to speed, the alternatives are all slower. So are they avoiding the cameras for fear of ANPR/driver identification because they're intoxicated?

The A17 is usually slow anyway due to agriculture and HGV traffic. Being a busy stretch it's near impossible to overtake at times.

The speed cameras were in response to a few collisions and the fatal collision at the end of station road. All due to drivers not having headlights on in low light conditions and nothing what so ever to do with the speed they were going.

[Liquid Knight]

All that jazz said:

Liquid Knight said:

Stuff

Yes, I'm aware of the old road through the villages but what's that got to do with the increase in accidents since the cameras were installed? Given the 30 and 40 limits along Sutton Rd/Lynn Rd through the villages there's no way anyone would choose that route to make faster progress than just staying on the A17 so your argument makes no sense.

I agree it doesn't make sense at all.

People who want to avoid speed cameras and drive beyond the posted speed limit through the villages instead aren't exactly going to win Mastermind are they? Making sense isn't something you would expect from them is it?

Coincidentally three of the vehicles that have crashed were Nissan Qashqai and two were Vauxhall Agilas. We're not dealing with the cream of the crop here.

Back on topic I have spoken to one of my neighbors and he likes the idea.

[Liquid Knight]

motco said:

This farmhouse is on a temptingly oblique fast downhill bend on a country road. The Armco is a matter of self-defence (geddit?)

Wigans Lane

Love the Multipla crossing the centre. Racing line, pedestrian pace.

[Liquid Knight]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I can see both side to this but what if the drunk or speeding driver didn't hit a fence but ran over someone you know? Someone you care about? Someone you love?

If they hit a wall and kill themselves who is to blame? The person who put the wall up or the one who drove over the limit (speed or alcohol) and crashed into it?

Armco is designed to deflect side or angled impact or absorb frontal impact. If anything I'm thinking of reducing the risk of death or substantial injury. I'm not looking at Medieval fortification with spikes sticking out to impale people with (Hmmmmm... Now there's an idea).

Sadly most drink drivers aren't killed as a result of their actions. Cars are far too safe for Darwinian thinking these days.

[Liquid Knight]

On the topic of Manslaughter. If your property boarders a well known accident black spot (I know the use of the word "accident" is inaccurate but that's what they are called) and you deliberately erect a structure with the intent to cause or contribute to undue harm it could be considered premeditation and therefore not Manslaughter at all.

Do I have the right to defend my property from oil, petrol, diesel, coolant, washer fluid, physical damage and broken glass in my lawn for the next ten bloody years? Yes.

Do I have the right to cause injury or even death to others in the defense of my property? Of course not. Tony Martin taught us that one.

Just to repeat the point from earlier. Armco is designed to deflect or absorb impact Not make an already bad situation worse.

As much as I would like to think an Englishman's home is his castle we can't (morally speaking) fortify it.

[Liquid Knight]

Back on topic another neighbor thinks it's a good idea but his wife is concerned about the rural aesthetic.

[Liquid Knight]

Biker's Nemesis said:

Build a ramp with a big metal hoop that shoots confetti 100ft in the air when they crash through it.

That's almost as good as the perpendicular trampolines idea.

Trouble with that is if the vehicle has a flat four it'll keep coming back.

Update; three neighbors are for it, five object and two don't care.

[Liquid Knight]

GSalt said:

Liquid Knight said:

Since the A17 from Sutton Bridge to King's Lynn has had average speed cameras the number of collisions in my village has gone up from a couple a year to sixteen since the cameras were installed (in April).

The best bit about all this? .. the cameras haven't been switched on yet, they're due to go live next week..

http://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/a17-speed-cameras-t...

I know and knew that but again we're not dealing with the cream of the crop here guys.

Basically the Norfolk Police and local press have just announced the A17 is a race track for the next three days.

[Liquid Knight]

cmaguire said:

Because all roads without cameras are racetracks.

The propoganda is working.

Not propaganda at all. The A17 from Sutton Bridge to King's Lynn used to be a well know roundabout race for bikers. From Sutton Bridge to the A17/A47 roundabout and back. They used to gather at the Bridge Hotel. More innocent less Health and Safety times.

[Liquid Knight]

Jordan63 said:

I live near Swaffham & regularly travel up the A17 so I know the exact roads you are talking about - they're not great!

I have seen Armco used in someones garden near me, they live on a sharp corner and had Armco installed the complete width of their front garden (A corner plot) then had a wooden fence erected in front of it so you can't see it from the outside (No idea what it looks like from in the garden, presumably an Armco with a wooden fence in front of it..)


Here we go, behind the fence there is Armco the whole way round:

Now that is a really good idea.

At least average speed cameras might do something. Norfolk County Council's Highways policy for more dangerous roads is to make them even more dangerous by fly tipping kitty litter on them so the surface is like driving on the surface of the Moon; or woefully neglect the road so the surface is like the cratered parts of the Moon. Neither any use apart from seeing SUV's for people to speed in and pretend they're somewhere between Paris and Dakar and not the A47

[Liquid Knight]

GreatGranny said:

Liquid Knight said:

cmaguire said:

Because all roads without cameras are racetracks.

The propoganda is working.

Not propaganda at all. The A17 from Sutton Bridge to King's Lynn used to be a well know roundabout race for bikers. From Sutton Bridge to the A17/A47 roundabout and back. They used to gather at the Bridge Hotel. More innocent less Health and Safety times.

Used to do Sleaford to Norwich 3 times a week and the general standard of driving along the stretch from Sleaford to Kings Lynn was appalling.
IMO it's a good thing that the cameras have been installed.
KSI rates in Norfolk and Lincolnshire aren't falling (think they rose 2014 to 2015) so obviously something has to be done.
I realise that some of the driving Gods on PH think that speed limits and enforcement is nonsense but the majority of drivers are not driving Gods.

The A17 was closed again tonight due to a collision at Station Road, Terrington St Clement so the cameras are about as effective at stopping incidents as ever.

The number of collisions in the villages has gone down though. Mostly due to a Police crack down the other week. As well as fourteen speeding vehicles stopped in an hour, three mobile phone users, two weren't wearing seat belts and one was over the limit from the night before.

[Liquid Knight]

Okay let's clarify the law here.

Hitting someone over the head with a length of Armco would be assault, A or GBH or attempted murder if you can hit them hard enough (good luck it weighs a fair bit to swing).

Putting a length of Armco in the road for someone to hit with hostile intent is also against the law. Criminal damage, Obstruction of the Queens Highway etc.

Putting up Armco on a property boundary is not against the law at all.


Also I agree with the dikes and ditches issue in this part of the world. Just after Christmas I had to pull a guy out of his sunroof because the doors were jammed shut and the car filling with water. The ditch he had driven into was only a few feet deep but the water was only just above freezing so we had to get him out.