Small claims court questions.
Discussion
Hi
I have a few questions. Flying in the face of advice from forum reference me other thread I am looking at the option of taking the DVLA to small claims court and need a few answers.
1: If i launch a claim where will it be held? Locally to me or at a place of DVLA's choosing?
2: If the claim fails do I have any form of judgement against me similar to a CCJ?
3: I have been advised my appeal against the fine has been rejected as I predicted it would.
I am therefore going to pay it. Is there anything I need to do in this regard?
4: When I make payment do I need to make any form of declaration such as that payment is made under duress or something. Would seem odd but thinking ahead a magistrate may ask why I paid and did not allow it to go to court to argue it if I disagreed ?
As to question 4 and 2.
I cannot allow the DVLA to take me to court as if I lose the case I have to declare it to my employer who in turn has to declare it to gov secure clearing and its very likely my clearance will be revoked and as such I am out of a job.
The company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
Any help or advice is much appreciated.
I have a few questions. Flying in the face of advice from forum reference me other thread I am looking at the option of taking the DVLA to small claims court and need a few answers.
1: If i launch a claim where will it be held? Locally to me or at a place of DVLA's choosing?
2: If the claim fails do I have any form of judgement against me similar to a CCJ?
3: I have been advised my appeal against the fine has been rejected as I predicted it would.
I am therefore going to pay it. Is there anything I need to do in this regard?
4: When I make payment do I need to make any form of declaration such as that payment is made under duress or something. Would seem odd but thinking ahead a magistrate may ask why I paid and did not allow it to go to court to argue it if I disagreed ?
As to question 4 and 2.
I cannot allow the DVLA to take me to court as if I lose the case I have to declare it to my employer who in turn has to declare it to gov secure clearing and its very likely my clearance will be revoked and as such I am out of a job.
The company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
Any help or advice is much appreciated.
Meoricin said:
Are you saying you're considering not Defending the Court case they will bring, but instead Admitting it, paying it, and then filing a claim of your own to recoup the cost?
If so, why wouldn't you just file a defence or counterclaim at the time? It'll be cheaper, and if your defence fails you'd still be able to pay within 28 days of the Judgment to prevent it being registered by the Registry Trust. If it's not registered, there shouldn't be any reason why it'd affect your security clearance (though as said, I can't see any reason why a civil case would affect this anyway).
Basically I have 2 choices.If so, why wouldn't you just file a defence or counterclaim at the time? It'll be cheaper, and if your defence fails you'd still be able to pay within 28 days of the Judgment to prevent it being registered by the Registry Trust. If it's not registered, there shouldn't be any reason why it'd affect your security clearance (though as said, I can't see any reason why a civil case would affect this anyway).
Pay fine and walk away.
Advise DVLA I would like them to take me to court to argue my case.
As said I really dont know why or even if a judgement will affect my clearing however I have spoken with our head of SC for the company who advised me there was a risk I could lose my clearance if I let them take me to court and I lost regardless of whether anything is filed as I still have to declare the issue to my company who in turn have to declare it to SC clearing.
As such I cannot take a risk of allowing them to take me to court.
My thought therefore was to pay the fine and then try get all my money back through small claims where its not a claim against me which means theoretically even if i lose I dont need to declare it to my company or sc clearing.
esxste said:
If it's a case of rolling over and letting the DVLA screw you, or risking losing you job and winning a fight against them in court.... seems like a no-brainer.
Seems weird that a civil court issue would affect security clearance though. (But I have almost no knowledge of SC procedures)
Unfortunately I am so fSeems weird that a civil court issue would affect security clearance though. (But I have almost no knowledge of SC procedures)
ked off with the stress and financial loss caused to me by the DVLA I don't really want to just roll over and let them get away with it. This has so far cost me £500 and a huge amount of stress.I don't know if I will win as my case is not water tight. The DVLA are making it about my V5 whereas I am making it about due process.
To me the V5 issue is entirely separate. The DVLA failed to notify me they were cancelling my road tax. The REASON they cancelled it is irrelevant. They had my details my name, my address, my bank account details, my email address etc.
If they had notified me of their intent to cancel the road tax the entire issue would have been dealt with and the car would have remained road legal. They are trying to use the fact the car was not registered as an excuse for their actions but that is like putting the goods in the cart ahead of the horse. Its just not relevant imo.
This is in my opinion simply a case of them making easy money.
Whatever comes from this they are now in my sights.Having had to look into it and finding out they answer to no one there is no independent review board no formal appeals or complaints process etc I am going to spend time trying to raise awareness of this and try get it changed.
This has taught me that ANY communication with the DVLA needs to be carefully recorded whether its a phone call an email or a letter.
esxste said:
frankenstein12 said:
Unfortunately I am so fked off with the stress and financial loss caused to me by the DVLA I don't really want to just roll over and let them get away with it. This has so far cost me £500 and a huge amount of stress.
Regardless, if there is a serious and credible threat to your job, you should place that concern above all else before deciding whether to continue. ked off with the stress and financial loss caused to me by the DVLA I don't really want to just roll over and let them get away with it. This has so far cost me £500 and a huge amount of stress.I need to work out what implications are should I take them to court and lose the case. I also need to check my SC department to see their view and whether it changes anything if I take the DVLA to court and lose versus the DVLA taking me to court and me losing.
Aside from that I need to work out if I need to make any form of statement when paying the fine to show if i go to court I only paid to avoid being taken to court. I suppose I would also need a letter from my company SC department advising the reasons I have gone this route.
KungFuPanda said:
frankenstein12 said:
Hi
The company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
That is absolute bullsThe company I contract to had another engineer who was simply a witness to a bar fight and due to his statement being taken by the police his security clearance was revoked.
t. So you're telling me, someone who gave a statement to the Police and were probably then summonsed to attend a trial and had to attend to avoid being in contempt of Court lost their job because of that? I'm not even calling custard, I'm calling a whole dairy on this one. Edited by frankenstein12 on Tuesday 21st February 23:53
TooMany2cvs said:
frankenstein12 said:
I don't know if I will win as my case is not water tight.
It's as watertight as a shagged-out colander.frankenstein12 said:
The DVLA are making it about my V5 whereas I am making it about due process.
It's about both. They are the same.frankenstein12 said:
To me the V5 issue is entirely separate. The DVLA failed to notify me they were cancelling my road tax. The REASON they cancelled it is irrelevant.
The reason your VED DD was cancelled is VERY relevant. You were not, and never had been, the registered keeper of that vehicle.They created the reason I got penalised by failing to notify me that the tax was being cancelled. They had all my details and they were all linked to the vehicle on the DVLA's system. The only time they were given those details were when I sent in the new keepers documents and when I set up the direct debit to pay the road tax prior to sending in the new keepers documents.
The fact that when DVLA Enforcement sent the letter to my home address with my full name including my middle initials demanding I pay a fine the first line states " Our records indicate you were the vehicles keeper at the time of the offence" .
If their records showed I was the keeper of the vehicle at the time of the offence then their records would also have shown I was the keeper when they cancelled the tax. As such they could and should have notified me that they were cancelling the tax. As such the whole situation would have been avoided and the V5 problem would also have been resolved (well not quite since they lost the V62 I sent when I got clamped as well).
It would be like your credit card company cancelling your monthly direct debit without telling you and then fining you for non payment of the credit card. The reason for cancellation is not relevant. It is the failure to notify of cancellation that is relevant.
If you dont know something has been cancelled how can you avoid a penalty?
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
I find it amazing that people think its acceptable that although they had all my details linked to the car they failed to notify me they were cancelling the tax and then fined me for no tax. Maybe I am crazy. If this thread is indicative of the stupidity I face then I guess there is little point in trying to go to court over it.
frankenstein12 said:
I find it amazing that people think its acceptable that although they had all my details linked to the car they failed to notify me they were cancelling the tax and then fined me for no tax. Maybe I am crazy.
If this thread is indicative of the stupidity I face then I guess there is little point in trying to go to court over it.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted. If this thread is indicative of the stupidity I face then I guess there is little point in trying to go to court over it.
The DVLA cancelled the debit not me and they did so without notification even though they had all the details required to notify me. End of.
I will simply pay the fine and not waste time trying to pursue them to get my money back.
TooMany2cvs said:
KevinCamaroSS said:
frankenstein12 said:
I can tell you for a fact thats what happened as he was one of my engineers. I dont know why and whether it was simple clerical error on SC clearing divisions side but it happened and I dont want to take that chance.He didnt lose his job as he is a PAYE member of staff and was moved to other duties. I on the other hand am a contractor and would be very unlikely to be moved to other duties I would simply be replaced.
What you actually mean is that this is what the engineer told you. Not that it is fact.I can think of a very obvious alternative reason why the person in question had his clearance revoked after appearing in court for a bar fight case.
Certainly I cannot be 100% certain there was not more to it than he stated though our security department stated he was telling the truth according to info they had.
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