Blanket 20mph limit across Wales from 2023

[mr_fibuli]

Starting from next year every 30mph road in Wales will become a 20 limit.

I live in one of the lucky "pilot" areas. It was originally meant to just be residential areas and to exclude major A and B roads, which most people supported, but at the last minute the scheme was changed to include every road in my local area, even some well sighted country roads with no pedestrians, traffic or housing.

Its becoming increasing clear that this is a done deal, not a "pilot" scheme. Local politicians are blaming each other or ignoring the issue. Our Welsh MS is conveniently also the chair of the Welsh Government petitions committee and is not allowing us to even start a petition on the issue.

The consultations held were completely corrupt. There was a local "informal" consultation - no one replying to that knew that it didn't count for anything though. Then there was a Welsh Government consultation - there were ~2600 objections, but these were completely discounted as "not representative". Finally there was another unpublicised local consultation - this is the only one that counts because there was only 1 objection.

Anyway, If you live in Wales or just like to visit for a drive or a holiday, here's the change.org petition: https://chng.it/7c8gqBRxjw

And here's an example of one of our new 20 limits (note the subtle lamp-posts denoting it was already bad enough at 30).

[mr_fibuli]

Dingu said:

Not strictly true.

So what roads do you think are going to remain 30?

We were lead to believe that all our A and B arterial roads would be exempt, but this turned out to be a bait and switch. We woke up one morning to find all our main routes flowing like a funeral cortege.

There is a single road in the whole town that has remained 30mph, but we have been told that this will become a 20 too when the full scheme rolls out next year as it doesn't meet the strict new requirements for a 30 - cycle lanes, pedestrian separation etc.

[mr_fibuli]

mgv8 said:

The trick is to know the rules and use it agast them. The petition can be started but it just depends on who is running it?
What are the papers saying, do you have a story for them. What are the rules about the number of objections and what they have to do? What are the rules on objections to them?
If you what to push back on this it will take a lot of work but can be done.

It is all kicking off locally, lots of people doing some great work in the Facebook group (linked in the petition). Standing in the local elections, radio interviews, papers, FOI requests, and hundreds of letters of complaint that the local council and MS are getting sick of reading. Some kind of official complaint has gone in against our MS who has repeatedly passed the buck while not allowing us to start a petition. (there have been several carefully worded attempts, but they are all denied as there was an unconnected petition about a year ago that got hardly any responses).

I think the main issue now is raising awareness that this is going to happen across the whole country next year - people seem pretty apathetic towards it until the bin bags come off the 20 signs on their local roads. I think it is our duty as a "pilot area" to get the word out, hence my post here

[mr_fibuli]

Peter3442 said:

On some good downhill stretches, we'll be seeing some of the more adventurous cyclists breaking the speed limit.

Yep, we already have people complaining about being overtaken and undertaken by cyclists, and also a lot of road rage and dangerous overtakes happening now.

[mr_fibuli]

ATG said:

Probably worth pointing out that this isn't actually a blanket policy at all. The idea is to change the DEFAULT speed limit to 20mph and then have the relevant highway authority apply a more appropriate speed limit on a case by case basis. This is what already happens to vary the speed limit from the current default of 30mph to create the 20mph and 40mph sections we encounter.

The objective clearly is to lower speed limits in a lot of places without having to go through the current rigmarole of creating 20mph zones. Yes, there'd be loads more 20mph urban roads. But if the system works as intended there'd still be loads of 30mph and 40mph thoroughfares too.

Obviously there's plenty of scope for the implementation to be ballsed up, cost a fortune, etc, etc, but the central idea isn't completely bonkers.

Here is the Welsh Government criteria for allowing a road to be 30mph:

30mph speed limits will be retained on A and B classification roads provided they are not:
1. Within 100m walk of any educational setting (e.g. primary, secondary, further education and higher education);
2. Within 100m walk of any community centre;
3. Within 100m walk of any hospital;
4. Where the number of residential and/or retail premises fronting a road exceeds a defined density (20 properties per km equivalent).

That rules out pretty much 100% of all town and suburban roads that I can think of.

[mr_fibuli]

C70R said:

No, no, no.

You're not getting it, are you?

The OP wanted outrage. That's why he was deliberately misleading.

He wanted to scream into the ether, and find like-minded people who he could ramble on to about "the state of things".

He wanted to attract the people who constantly rant about things like dawdling drivers, speed bumps, 'scameras' and road policing.

Err, no - I'm just trying to raise awareness of what is going to happen across the whole of Wales next year, based on my personal experience of living in one of the pilot areas. Several people in the thread have now accused me of lying about the extent of the plans, without any evidence to back this up.

Could you please explain what I have said that is "deliberately misleading"? 20 mph is going to be the default speed for any existing 30 limit across the whole of Wales. The rules for overriding this and restoring any arterial A or B roads back to 30mph are so restrictive (< 20 properties per km) that there will be no 30mph roads at all in any town or suburban areas.

If you feel safer driving at 20mph then knock yourself out, you can do so now if you like, but maybe this isn't the thread or petition for you.

[mr_fibuli]

C70R said:

HTH

Not really - selectively quoting me when I have already given a full explanation of how the scheme will work is not helpful.

I'm not sure how I can spell it out any more clearly for you. Every existing 30 limit as defined by street light spacing will become a 20 overnight. This is what is meant by a "Blanket 20 limit". Local councils can apply for exemptions, but the criteria for these are so strict that virtually no roads will be allowed to be 30. We have already had it confirmed that there will not be a single 30 limit allowed in our town and surrounding area under the new rules.

The only intentional deception here is by the Welsh Government. They sold the plan as being for schools and residential areas, and assured us that arterial A and B roads would be exempt. I fully support this, but it isn't going to happen unless those of us in the pilot areas and beyond raise our objections.

Being pedantic about the fact that there might still be a handful of 30s left in the whole of Wales next year is missing the point entirely.

I'm glad you find the whole thing unbelievable though - our local community does too, hence the campaign and petition.

[mr_fibuli]

jmsgld said:

The petition is far from perfect, but I still think signing is really just a vote against the proposed changes.

Agreed, thanks to anyone who has signed.

The campaign is making a real difference, and the petition has definitely helped to get the issue taken more seriously. While the person leading it might not have worded everything to the satisfaction of PH, she has been doing a great job by raising awareness, standing in the local elections, doing a BBC radio interview, and speaking to various politicians from the town council to the Senedd.

Negotiations are now taking place about which of our main routes should be returned back to 30mph. Hopefully the negative reaction in these trial areas will help to relax the policy and allow many more A and B roads to be exempt when the full scheme rolls out next year.