Not displaying tax disc on a taxed car question.
Discussion
Hi, I don't think I've posted in here before but I'm after a bit of friendly advice from any BIB.
Story:
I owned until recently an Alfa 156 which at the end of April (having been made redundant) I SORNED (we have two other cars to use). The Alfa remained parked on our gated driveway. In early July I put the Alfa up for sale. Two lads come to view one evening and then ask for a test drive. I suddenly realise the car isn't taxed so get onto the dvla website and tax the vehicle. A couple of days later I drive the car to a local industrial estate and park it up (legally!) with for sale signs in the window. I leave the car parked there overnight and return the next evening to find a notice from plod on the car w3ith a penalty notice 'to the driver' for not diplaying a tax disc.
I call on the local police station which deals with these issues and am told by the civvy at the front desk that If I write a letter explaining the situation then the ticket will be withdrawn. I do this and explain in the letter that I have subsequently sold the car and included the tax in the sale. I get a reply asking for a copy of the tax disc (which I obviously no longer have
).
Unfortunately the confirmation e-mail from the dvla seems to have vanished into the ether (along with about 2 months worth of other e-mails - not sure why) so I ring the dvla asking to be sent a copy. They can't do that and tell me the tax disc is my receipt. So why not contqct the new owner? I sold the car to a dealer who has sold the car and can't (data protection) tell me who he sold it to.
So I've complied with the law but I'm going to be fined under an archaic law designed to discourage people from using Guinness labels as tax discs (long time ago!!).
To me its absolutely bloody ridiculous that the dvla is encouraging taxing vehicles online yet our system doesn't appear to let plod see exactly when a vehicle was taxed.
I'm prepared to go to court on this one to make a point as why should I pay for a tax disc and not be able to use a vehicle for up to five days (or more whilst waiting for the disc)? However it also strikes me that perhaps local pliod are being a bit lazy and could save everyone a lot of hassle by contacting the dvla themselves?
Any ideas?
Off out for a bbite to eat so I'll be back a little later.
TIA.
Story:
I owned until recently an Alfa 156 which at the end of April (having been made redundant) I SORNED (we have two other cars to use). The Alfa remained parked on our gated driveway. In early July I put the Alfa up for sale. Two lads come to view one evening and then ask for a test drive. I suddenly realise the car isn't taxed so get onto the dvla website and tax the vehicle. A couple of days later I drive the car to a local industrial estate and park it up (legally!) with for sale signs in the window. I leave the car parked there overnight and return the next evening to find a notice from plod on the car w3ith a penalty notice 'to the driver' for not diplaying a tax disc.
I call on the local police station which deals with these issues and am told by the civvy at the front desk that If I write a letter explaining the situation then the ticket will be withdrawn. I do this and explain in the letter that I have subsequently sold the car and included the tax in the sale. I get a reply asking for a copy of the tax disc (which I obviously no longer have
).Unfortunately the confirmation e-mail from the dvla seems to have vanished into the ether (along with about 2 months worth of other e-mails - not sure why) so I ring the dvla asking to be sent a copy. They can't do that and tell me the tax disc is my receipt. So why not contqct the new owner? I sold the car to a dealer who has sold the car and can't (data protection) tell me who he sold it to.
So I've complied with the law but I'm going to be fined under an archaic law designed to discourage people from using Guinness labels as tax discs (long time ago!!).
To me its absolutely bloody ridiculous that the dvla is encouraging taxing vehicles online yet our system doesn't appear to let plod see exactly when a vehicle was taxed.
I'm prepared to go to court on this one to make a point as why should I pay for a tax disc and not be able to use a vehicle for up to five days (or more whilst waiting for the disc)? However it also strikes me that perhaps local pliod are being a bit lazy and could save everyone a lot of hassle by contacting the dvla themselves?
Any ideas?
Off out for a bbite to eat so I'll be back a little later.
TIA.
SS2. said:
mudster said:
Failure to display is not an offence if it's within 5 days of applying for a disc online.
Only if the application for the new disc was made before the previous disc had expired.I've got the credit card statement and I'll take along the tax discs for our other cars and hopefully that'll keep them happy.
I find it incredulous that I'm having to go to quiet a lot of trouble (impossible to get through to the relevant office by phone and no copper will ever come to the civilian manned front desk) and its the second time this year. The first time was just after I'd taxed my Elise which had been on SORN for a couple of months over the winter. Do plod really not have the ability to check these things out or is the DVLA computer system so poor than it can't immedietly update itself? Seems bloody ridiculous to me that I can tax a car online but then not use it until the piece of paper turns up.
Thankd anyway guys.
sy534534 said:
Thanks MRMR96, but the police didn't say that, the civvy behind the desk did 
and i suspect it was just to get rid of the OP. The offence has been comitted, why are people always trying to weasle out of these type of things? ( Awaits inevitable flaming 
)
Because I object to paying my road tax and then not being able to use the car. Its absolutely ridiculous that we have a system that allows me to tax a vehicle online from the moment I press the send button yet I can be prosecuted for failing to show the receipt. Surely either the archaic law ought to be brought up to date or plod given a decent system to check the status of a car. and i suspect it was just to get rid of the OP. The offence has been comitted, why are people always trying to weasle out of these type of things? ( Awaits inevitable flaming ) I'm not the sort of pikey that drives aound in untaxed or uninsured vehicles. I'm just an ordinary but very busy person and don't have time to stand in post office queues to get a tax disc. The dvla send enough bumf encouraging on-line payment: its about time the system caught up and was introduced to the 21st century.
I once had a Jag that 'followed' me for over a year after I sold it. Trying to prove to the dvla that I had sold the car and that it wasn't me comitting the offences proved such a pita I paid up twice. The third time I told them to take me to court and was told to forget it and they'd update their records.
Sorry if I sound like I'm whinging but as far as I'm concerned I taxed my car using the most up to date method - if the method of taxing the vehicle is changed then the law concerning how one polices that also needs to be changed. Bloody jobsworth of a copper to nick me for failing to display in my view - I'm sure it must have been the only thing troubling the police in Plymouth on the night in question yet the police wonder why the public often have such a low view of them .
I'm generally supportive of plod and didn't come on here to complain or ask how to wrangle out of a speeding fine two years ago. I was speeding, I got caught, got a reasoned (not patronising) talking to and paid up without any form of resentment. I even wished the copper who nicked me a happy Christmas (and meant it - I wouldn't want his job for the world). However if Joe Public is being harrassed for technical 'offences' (in this case an outmoded one introduced when the only system for checking a vehicles status was checking what was on the car) then the Police will continue to be seen in a bad light by those who would normally support them.
I hope none of the BIB on here take offence as I'm not copper bashing. I'm just pissed with the system and, as I've said, generally supportive of those who undertake a job that I wouldn't want. Keep up the (generally
) good work
tAnd why am I getting so pissed about a £60 non-endorsable fine?
Pricipal. This country so sinking so low and people like me are getting fed up with going about our lives in normal, law obiding manner yet find ourselves falling foul of petty laws.
If the worse comes to the worse I'll probably pay the fine but the Chief Constable, my MP and the regional newpapers will get a letter. On the other hand if I really get my campaigning hat on I might just tell them to take me to court and have my day in court asking why the law requires me to prove I am complying with the law with a piece of paper when (as far as I understand, the police can check themselves). I'll also ask for a full list of criminal offences committed in Plymouth on the night in question and how the investigations are going and how it is they seem to have been very efficient in dealing with me but not so clever at dealing with the real problems society has.
I'll end up paying for it but it might make a point.
Pricipal. This country so sinking so low and people like me are getting fed up with going about our lives in normal, law obiding manner yet find ourselves falling foul of petty laws.
If the worse comes to the worse I'll probably pay the fine but the Chief Constable, my MP and the regional newpapers will get a letter. On the other hand if I really get my campaigning hat on I might just tell them to take me to court and have my day in court asking why the law requires me to prove I am complying with the law with a piece of paper when (as far as I understand, the police can check themselves). I'll also ask for a full list of criminal offences committed in Plymouth on the night in question and how the investigations are going and how it is they seem to have been very efficient in dealing with me but not so clever at dealing with the real problems society has.
I'll end up paying for it but it might make a point.
gareth_r said:
It's the consistency that's so impressive...
Computer says no insurance - we'll believe it and impound your car even if it's actually insured.
Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.
Yep and thats the sort of thing that's getting up people's noses. Its no good the power that be sticking their heads in the sand - there's a real world populated by real people beyond their ivory towers and most of those people just want to be left alone to live their blameless lives not be harrassed by beaurocracy.Computer says no insurance - we'll believe it and impound your car even if it's actually insured.
Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.
Edited by gareth_r on Saturday 22 August 02:18
gareth_r said:
It's the consistency that's so impressive...
Computer says no insurance - we'll believe it and impound your car even if it's actually insured.
Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.
Yep and thats the sort of thing that's getting up people's noses. Its no good the power that be sticking their heads in the sand - there's a real world populated by real people beyond their ivory towers and most of those people just want to be left alone to live their blameless lives not be harrassed by beaurocracy.Computer says no insurance - we'll believe it and impound your car even if it's actually insured.
Computer says car is taxed - we'll ignore it and fine you for not displaying a piece of paper.
Edited by gareth_r on Saturday 22 August 02:18
Robert060379 said:
Did you sell the Alfa yet? I know somone who's looking for one.
Yep, sorry. I had lots of tyre kickers and time wasters but only one really interested party. For a few days before I sold it into the trade I dropped the price to the same as the dealer had offered me but nobody bit.Too much hassle selling cars, even through PH!
flemke said:
CardShark said:
Unfortunately 'failure to display' is the offence in question and, I would think, stand up in court should it go further, I say 'unfortunately' because there have been a few interesting points made that do make it all sound a bit silly and possibly a little out moded.
To add another, I've recently re-insured my cars and did it all over the 'phone. After passing over my credit card details and the payment was authorised a policy number was generated, with that I was told that I was now legally covered to drive the vehicles and that my certificate etc would be in the post - so here we have a situation where I can legally drive the cars but had no 'proof' in the same sense as this tax disc scenario except for the policy number that I'd scribbled down on a piece of paper. Perhaps the DVLA could, on payment of a disc on the net, generate an authorisation number or such like which could then be displayed on the vehicle until the disc turns up?
Any thoughts?
When you re-tax via the DVLA website, you get sent a confirming e-mail. At the very least, you should be able to leave that e-mail on your dashboard in order to "display" that you have paid the tax.To add another, I've recently re-insured my cars and did it all over the 'phone. After passing over my credit card details and the payment was authorised a policy number was generated, with that I was told that I was now legally covered to drive the vehicles and that my certificate etc would be in the post - so here we have a situation where I can legally drive the cars but had no 'proof' in the same sense as this tax disc scenario except for the policy number that I'd scribbled down on a piece of paper. Perhaps the DVLA could, on payment of a disc on the net, generate an authorisation number or such like which could then be displayed on the vehicle until the disc turns up?
Any thoughts?
Finally got this sorted.
Went into the central ticket office again today (third visit!) and showed the credit card statement and twax tiscs from my other vehicles and asked what the probability was that I would be taxing more than three vehicles as a private individual. Civvy on the desk rings 'the office' and has a chat metnioning what I have and that I've been in a couple of times before. Message comes back to send in copies of everything and a covering letter and they'll drop it. I was asked by the civvy if I'd tried ringing (I commented about the impossib ility of speaking to someone who has the ability to amke a decision). Yes, I'd tried ringing the number which is open forr two hours a day - its either engaged or on the only occasion I've got through you get a message with two options both of which tell you to write in.
Its almopst like Livingstons tax on driving in London - I fell foul of it shortly after it was introduced not realising I'd driven into the 'prohibited' zone (I live in Devon). I drove straight out again and thought that would be that - No! A fine for less than five minutes.
I can almost understand it from Livingstone - in Red Ken's Utopia we'd all be working in a Soviet style system and do as we're told (of course we know how well that worked!) but FFS, its now got to the situation in this country where I feel easy targets are paying through the nose for simple errors. Not crimes or really offences - errors!! Is that what the police for is for - the enforcement of correct personal administration?
I've now probably got this all over again as I went out in the Elise today - got home and realised I hadn't put the tax disc back in after taking it out to show plod yesterday - I'll probably get another fine from the State Securitty Service for Personal Administration.
Sorry to be such a cynic as I know a few BIB and also understand the difficulties of your job, but I'm just a fairly typical memeber of the public and we're all starting to get a bit pissed.
Went into the central ticket office again today (third visit!) and showed the credit card statement and twax tiscs from my other vehicles and asked what the probability was that I would be taxing more than three vehicles as a private individual. Civvy on the desk rings 'the office' and has a chat metnioning what I have and that I've been in a couple of times before. Message comes back to send in copies of everything and a covering letter and they'll drop it. I was asked by the civvy if I'd tried ringing (I commented about the impossib ility of speaking to someone who has the ability to amke a decision). Yes, I'd tried ringing the number which is open forr two hours a day - its either engaged or on the only occasion I've got through you get a message with two options both of which tell you to write in.
Its almopst like Livingstons tax on driving in London - I fell foul of it shortly after it was introduced not realising I'd driven into the 'prohibited' zone (I live in Devon). I drove straight out again and thought that would be that - No! A fine for less than five minutes.
I can almost understand it from Livingstone - in Red Ken's Utopia we'd all be working in a Soviet style system and do as we're told (of course we know how well that worked!) but FFS, its now got to the situation in this country where I feel easy targets are paying through the nose for simple errors. Not crimes or really offences - errors!! Is that what the police for is for - the enforcement of correct personal administration?
I've now probably got this all over again as I went out in the Elise today - got home and realised I hadn't put the tax disc back in after taking it out to show plod yesterday - I'll probably get another fine from the State Securitty Service for Personal Administration.
Sorry to be such a cynic as I know a few BIB and also understand the difficulties of your job, but I'm just a fairly typical memeber of the public and we're all starting to get a bit pissed.
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