car insurance recovering my hire costs in court .
Discussion
Ok long story.
july 2005 minibus rips my bumber off and scratches the entire side of my renault espace. also pushes back door in.
insurance company sorts this out.
they offered me a like for like vehicle as in my policy it is stated.
I have hire car MPV for 7 weeks. it was summer holidays and five kids and off to france.
other side disputed the hire costs and only paid for some of it.
now five years on my insurance company are taking other side to small claims court.
However i have just had a letter from a solicitor asking me to sign a document to give them permission to go to court on my behalf and the insurance companies behalf.
it has five clauses.
i confirm i have not had a settlement already.
i confirm that i will co operate fully
i derstand that if i agree then later refuse to attend i will be liable for all court costs and credit hire charges.
i confirm information provided at the time of the accident are true.
i confirm that by signing this document i give sol to sign a statement of truth on my behalf
i understand it is a criminal offence to provide a false statement and if i did then i could go to prison.
surely it is the company that provided the hire car to me that are liable. surely they should be fighting this in court. Why should i sign away all my rights so that i may be liable for hire cost when paid for this in my insurance in the first place.
do i sign, do i write and complain.
The letter that came with this authority also states that if i dont comply to this request i will be laible for the entire hire costs. How do pray i paid for car insurance with a like for like vehicle. surely this issue is between the hire care company and the third party. not me. I have been told the issue is that as part of my car policy i was entitled to a group A hire car. but at the discretion of the company i was offered like for like another MPV as i had five children and they dont fit into a normal car. no they want me to take the buck for their actions.
any legal peeps of help if you have had to do this would be much appreciated
i need help
any suggestions.
off to source some legal help tomorrow.
july 2005 minibus rips my bumber off and scratches the entire side of my renault espace. also pushes back door in.
insurance company sorts this out.
they offered me a like for like vehicle as in my policy it is stated.
I have hire car MPV for 7 weeks. it was summer holidays and five kids and off to france.
other side disputed the hire costs and only paid for some of it.
now five years on my insurance company are taking other side to small claims court.
However i have just had a letter from a solicitor asking me to sign a document to give them permission to go to court on my behalf and the insurance companies behalf.
it has five clauses.
i confirm i have not had a settlement already.
i confirm that i will co operate fully
i derstand that if i agree then later refuse to attend i will be liable for all court costs and credit hire charges.
i confirm information provided at the time of the accident are true.
i confirm that by signing this document i give sol to sign a statement of truth on my behalf
i understand it is a criminal offence to provide a false statement and if i did then i could go to prison.
surely it is the company that provided the hire car to me that are liable. surely they should be fighting this in court. Why should i sign away all my rights so that i may be liable for hire cost when paid for this in my insurance in the first place.
do i sign, do i write and complain.
The letter that came with this authority also states that if i dont comply to this request i will be laible for the entire hire costs. How do pray i paid for car insurance with a like for like vehicle. surely this issue is between the hire care company and the third party. not me. I have been told the issue is that as part of my car policy i was entitled to a group A hire car. but at the discretion of the company i was offered like for like another MPV as i had five children and they dont fit into a normal car. no they want me to take the buck for their actions.
any legal peeps of help if you have had to do this would be much appreciated
i need help
any suggestions.
off to source some legal help tomorrow.
paoloh said:
Simpo Two said:
jessica said:
it has five clauses.
i confirm i have not had a settlement already.
i confirm that i will co operate fully
i derstand that if i agree then later refuse to attend i will be liable for all court costs and credit hire charges.
i confirm information provided at the time of the accident are true.
i confirm that by signing this document i give sol to sign a statement of truth on my behalf
i understand it is a criminal offence to provide a false statement and if i did then i could go to prison.
That's six clauses.i confirm i have not had a settlement already.
i confirm that i will co operate fully
i derstand that if i agree then later refuse to attend i will be liable for all court costs and credit hire charges.
i confirm information provided at the time of the accident are true.
i confirm that by signing this document i give sol to sign a statement of truth on my behalf
i understand it is a criminal offence to provide a false statement and if i did then i could go to prison.
The only one that sounds odd to me is (3): 'i derstand that if i agree then later refuse to attend i will be liable for all court costs and credit hire charges.'
Who is taking the other party to court, you or the insurance company?
I am more than happy to help them recover costs but I WILL NOT agree to be liable for them.
You had the benefit of the hire, now help them get the money back.
mattviatura said:
Jessica
I know a little bit about the credit hire industry, put your mind at rest you won't be liable. You might have to attend court as a witness and be asked whether or not you tried to mitigate your loss.
Don't worry about it, 99.9 per cent of these cases settle out of court in any event but you will not be liable.
I have three disabled children. how in the hell am i going to attend court if it is miles away?I know a little bit about the credit hire industry, put your mind at rest you won't be liable. You might have to attend court as a witness and be asked whether or not you tried to mitigate your loss.
Don't worry about it, 99.9 per cent of these cases settle out of court in any event but you will not be liable.
Can i ask for it to be held near my home town.
Piglet said:
Additional thought....does your initial post say that one of the clauses is that you give consent for a solicitor to sign a statement of truth on your behalf?
I would object to that one - I would consent to them signing something that I have approved but only after I had approved the document. I wouldn't give an open consent for someone to sign on my behalf without having seen the document.
Yes you are correct the solicitor wants me to agree to them sending things in on my behalf without me seeing them. Also found out today. Insurance company asked me for my permission in jan to pass this on to a solicitor and i never recieved letter. So I havent even given them permission to pass this on yet. i have written them a letter stating the above and also asking for a copy of the hire agreement. As i think my ex husband signed it not me. They also want to know how long i had the hire car for and how much it cost to repair my car. I cannot rememeber its five years ago. I can remember what was fixed on my car but not what it costs? I personally think they are blagging it and unless i sign something or the hire agreement says i am liable for costs they are gonna come unstuck. taking legal advice on this later today. I would object to that one - I would consent to them signing something that I have approved but only after I had approved the document. I wouldn't give an open consent for someone to sign on my behalf without having seen the document.
Paul Drawmer said:
Piglet said:
They don't need your consent to pass it to a solicitor, you are obligated under your policy to assist them and there are rights of subrogation within the policy that give them the ability to act in your shoes.
What he says.paoloh said:
jessica said:
Paul Drawmer said:
Piglet said:
They don't need your consent to pass it to a solicitor, you are obligated under your policy to assist them and there are rights of subrogation within the policy that give them the ability to act in your shoes.
What he says.What about all the time and stress they saved you by lending you a like for like car?
I will know better next time.
frosted said:
Hmmm..... 7 weeks car hire for a small accident , someone is taking the piss .If you used one of those accident management companies I have no pity for you
I didnt choose to use an accident management company. My insurance company got them involved i guess when the other side refused to pay. 7 weeks i think is correct but i a not sure.
i had a grande renault espace at the time and the whole of the front bumper was trashed. car was undrivable. part was on back order for ages. then loss adjuster noticed the damaged side door and we had to wait for the whole of the side of the car to be resprayed as it was all scratched.
My vehicle was stationary and unoccupied at the time. It was hit by a school minibus.
JustinP1 said:
Whoa....
Slow down.
This is not as bad as you think. Reading underneath the words here I can see what has happened.
Firstly, legally, when you have car insurance they agree to represent you in negligence claims and chase money up that you would be owed from other parties. In that same agreement you also agree to help them do that on your behalf. Otherwise legally, they can't claim on your behalf.
They have agreed to give you a hire car, fix your car etc on the basis that you will assist them in recovering this money from the person who hit your car (or their insurers).
What it looks like is that they still don't have this money.
What it seems that has happened is that the other insurers have got the bill and read:
Fixing the car £1000
Car hire for 7 weeks for a 7 seater car - £800 a week: £5400
Receiving that, the other insurers have said that £5000 (or thereabouts) for car hire over a relatively small claim is insane - and they are not going to pay it.
It seems that you have legitimate reasons to have that hire car - that is fine - but to get the other insurer to pay up, they need your permission to not only explain those reasons in full, but to offer a 'statement of truth' that could be used in court on your behalf.
Your insurer has to show that they are willing to go to court to get the other insurer to pay. They just need to have your co-operation. There will be little need for you to some to court if you give a full witness statement which they will write and run by you before signing on your behalf.
That is all common and standard practice in litigation. What is also common practice is for the defendant to call the claimant's bluff and for the claimant to have to show their whole hand - in this case a statement they will use in court - for them to pay up.
So - put a line through the parts about you being liable for something yourself - and agree to be co-operative in you will probably not hear anything further and the other company will pay up.
thanks for that. it all makes some sense. I am waiting to hear from my insurance company now. I have spoken to the solicitor and they have agreed to remove most of the clauses. Slow down.
This is not as bad as you think. Reading underneath the words here I can see what has happened.
Firstly, legally, when you have car insurance they agree to represent you in negligence claims and chase money up that you would be owed from other parties. In that same agreement you also agree to help them do that on your behalf. Otherwise legally, they can't claim on your behalf.
They have agreed to give you a hire car, fix your car etc on the basis that you will assist them in recovering this money from the person who hit your car (or their insurers).
What it looks like is that they still don't have this money.
What it seems that has happened is that the other insurers have got the bill and read:
Fixing the car £1000
Car hire for 7 weeks for a 7 seater car - £800 a week: £5400
Receiving that, the other insurers have said that £5000 (or thereabouts) for car hire over a relatively small claim is insane - and they are not going to pay it.
It seems that you have legitimate reasons to have that hire car - that is fine - but to get the other insurer to pay up, they need your permission to not only explain those reasons in full, but to offer a 'statement of truth' that could be used in court on your behalf.
Your insurer has to show that they are willing to go to court to get the other insurer to pay. They just need to have your co-operation. There will be little need for you to some to court if you give a full witness statement which they will write and run by you before signing on your behalf.
That is all common and standard practice in litigation. What is also common practice is for the defendant to call the claimant's bluff and for the claimant to have to show their whole hand - in this case a statement they will use in court - for them to pay up.
So - put a line through the parts about you being liable for something yourself - and agree to be co-operative in you will probably not hear anything further and the other company will pay up.
the amount in dispute is a little over 1.5k.
They want to go to the small claims court to do this. But they want me to cross a box to say if we lose i will be liable for the costs. I am asking for this clause to be removed if i decide i have to do this.
Edited by jessica on Friday 19th February 19:21
Agrilla said:
Must say, I echo Paoloh's sentiments.
Bottom line is that OP accepted a service - did they think that it was going to be for free, out of the goodness of their hearts?
OP (or ex-husband presumably under op's instruction) would have signed something which is likely to have specifcally said:
"I have had credit hire and the cover provided by my own policy explained to me. I understand that if I choose to hire on credit I am personally responsible for paying for the hire costs which I would not have incurred had I used a courtesy vehicle available to me from my own motor insurer or legal expenses insurer. I have read and understood the above and I believe that the answers I have given are true"
or if it was slightly more recent
"I understand that if I choose to hire on credit I am personally liable for paying for the hire costs which I would not have incurred had I been offered and accepted a suitable courtesy vehicle from my own motor insurer or legal expenses insurer...I have read and understood the above and I believe that the answers I have given are true"
I'm sure that the OP's life is very stressful - we all have different crap to deal with - it's not the hire company's fault, but surely if you're going to be taking thousands of pounds worth of any item or service you would spend five minutes reading through the pages that you sign to make sure that when you sign to say you understand, that you actually do.
Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
Still, the likelihood depending on which hire company it was, will choose not to pursue directly, but times are tight for everyone, so if they want their money back, what option do they have?
I always read things before i sign them, it was my recollection that the document i signed was to agree i had received the vehicle and check the scratches and dents on it before and after. Not once was it suggested that the car was a hire agreement . I am waiting for the insurance to clarify this by sending me a copy of the document. Bottom line is that OP accepted a service - did they think that it was going to be for free, out of the goodness of their hearts?
OP (or ex-husband presumably under op's instruction) would have signed something which is likely to have specifcally said:
"I have had credit hire and the cover provided by my own policy explained to me. I understand that if I choose to hire on credit I am personally responsible for paying for the hire costs which I would not have incurred had I used a courtesy vehicle available to me from my own motor insurer or legal expenses insurer. I have read and understood the above and I believe that the answers I have given are true"
or if it was slightly more recent
"I understand that if I choose to hire on credit I am personally liable for paying for the hire costs which I would not have incurred had I been offered and accepted a suitable courtesy vehicle from my own motor insurer or legal expenses insurer...I have read and understood the above and I believe that the answers I have given are true"
I'm sure that the OP's life is very stressful - we all have different crap to deal with - it's not the hire company's fault, but surely if you're going to be taking thousands of pounds worth of any item or service you would spend five minutes reading through the pages that you sign to make sure that when you sign to say you understand, that you actually do.
Whatever happened to personal responsibility?
Still, the likelihood depending on which hire company it was, will choose not to pursue directly, but times are tight for everyone, so if they want their money back, what option do they have?
Noger said:
I keep trying to comment on this, but just get more and more confused each day 
7 weeks "included with the policy" hire car ???? Blimey, 21 days is generous and you will mostly pay extra for that. Which insurer ?
The OP has been taken down the Credit Hire route without them knowing ???
Or has the insurer taken out the hire car, thinking they will have a simple recovery and
now it has gone pear side ? Really ???
car was provided as a curtisity car. parts on back order,bodged up paint job etc. on and on. 7 weeks "included with the policy" hire car ???? Blimey, 21 days is generous and you will mostly pay extra for that. Which insurer ?
The OP has been taken down the Credit Hire route without them knowing ???
Or has the insurer taken out the hire car, thinking they will have a simple recovery and
now it has gone pear side ? Really ???
took 7 weeks. to sort.
none of it my fault.
i wont be signing anything it would appear that this is the insurance companies last ditched attempt to get their money back. I am not going to the small claims court for them. well i can but it will cost them at least £100 an hour for my time and to provide care for my children whilst i am there.
frosted said:
May I ask how much you got for whiplash injuries ?
As I wasn t in the car at the time Jack s
t.also how can i lose my no claims bonus five years down the line. doh!!!!!!!!!!!!
If i have to go to court so be it. but it was my understanding at the time that the car i was supplied with was just an insurance replacement Like for like.
i had a grande renault espace...... and five kids.
Edited by jessica on Saturday 27th February 22:08
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