The Nazis want some extra tax from me

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So, I usually park in a housing area near where I do some part time work. It is supposed to be "private estate" with some pikey "no parking" sign, but this is not of course legally endorsable so no chance of getting clamped etc.
Some decided to super glue a "DO NOT PARK HERE, blah blah blah" notice to my windscreen (a fking bh to remove I may add).
So there I am ripping bits of the notice off, when a PCSO turns up in a car (I didn't see him). Apparently a few bits of the notice that I was ripping off my windscreen had fallen to the ground ... cue him giving me a FPN. Naturally, him being a PCSO means that I refuse to tell him my name and tell him I will tell it to a uniformed officer on production of his ID/warrant card. His mate gets out of the car and says that he is a police officer and shows me some ID (that simply said "employee of Thames Valley Police" or something similar - but he is plain clothes). I still ask for a uniformed officer, and the plain clothes chappy seems happy enough to oblige and calls in for another officer.
So a clothed officer now arrives on a bicycle, but is refusing to show me any ID and simply says "I'm wearing the correct clothes, and look it has a number on my vest". While I'm trying to get the guy to show me some ID (and him threatening to arrest me under everything from Section 20 PACE (isn't this seizure of computerised materials?), to anti-terror laws) another 2 cops in a proper car show up, and seem happy enough to show me their ID.
Cue me giving them my details and getting my FPN...


So firstly, is there any way I can get out of the FPN ("Section 87/88 Environment Protection Act 1990") ... I don't really fancy the local Nazi scum £55 (which is almost the amount of money I earned today :/)

Secondly, anyone know of an easy way to remove paper notices that get stuck to your car with some bhing glue (I spent ages using nails and wiper fluid to remove it). It is the only place I can park that is within walking distance of where I work, public transport is not an option due to the time it would take, the work place has no parking provision, and the person sticking these notices on is a local so is likely to do it to me again

Thirdly, what is it with officers refusing to show proper ID. I told the guy, you show me your ID and I will gladly tell you who I am and so on...

And fourthly, am I right about Section 20 of PACE being about computers, and as such should I file a complaint about the officer being a retard :/

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 18:24

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 18:29

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Milky Joe said:

It's £55 that I DO NOT want to spend

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chr15b said:

Milky Joe said:

+1

it's one thing getting an 'invoice' when there are some daft small signs on a private carpark at a shopping centre but to park in a private place when you know you shouldnt is just plain rude and selfish.

it's extremely annoying when you cant park or manouver around your own home because of selfish people

your actions were deliberate then to top it all off you behave like a child - the smiley from the previous post sums it up.

It is a whole road that is marked as private, it is wide enough for 2 cars and me and a few other people parking there does not obstruct anyone. The fact that the road is owned by the people who run the apartments is neither here nor there, they have no legal enforcement on that road for no parking.
It is NOT my fault that it is the ONLY place to park for a day, as everything else is 1 or 2 hour, or permit parking only. Blame the retards that are the council for that.

EDIT:

It is this whole road on the left
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=oxford&ie=UTF8...
And as you can see there are a few cars parked at the top of it

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 18:42

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TheEnd said:

rypt said:

should I file a complaint about the officer being a retard :/

oh yes, but don't tell us the outcome.

Hey, at least I know what Section of PACE he can and can't arrest me under ...
Then again, the PCSO didn't know under what powers he could issue me a notice, and had to radio it in to ask and be told that he's issuing it under local by-laws, and that it says on the back of the FPN under what act the offence was.

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herewego said:

If it's a private road then it doesn't matter how wide it is does it? It's private and that's it.

The fact that there is a sign on a lamp post saying "Private housing estate, ps off" has no legal ramification
The road is STILL a public highway (hence why PCSO can even try to fine you as it is not private land), there is no gate or anything, as such normal rules of the road apply. If you do not want parking then you need to have the SAME double yellow lines on the estate as the council have on other parts of the roads near by.
If you do not want people parking then you need to have signs to that effect, that are legal under whatever regulations there are and are enforced as such.

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FishFace said:

Scoring minus a million on the attitude test = FPN.

He was already attempting to issue me an FPN before he got the attitude, the attitude was as a result of the FPN.

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chr15b said:

rypt said:

herewego said:

If it's a private road then it doesn't matter how wide it is does it? It's private and that's it.

The fact that there is a sign on a lamp post saying "Private housing estate, ps off" has no legal ramification
The road is STILL a public highway (hence why PCSO can even try to fine you as it is not private land), there is no gate or anything, as such normal rules of the road apply. If you do not want parking then you need to have the SAME double yellow lines on the estate as the council have on other parts of the roads near by.
If you do not want people parking then you need to have signs to that effect, that are legal under whatever regulations there are and are enforced as such.

you know you're not welcome there yet you still park. it's not your fault there is no local free parking, it's also not the residents fault either. trust me.

It doesn't matter if I'm welcome or not there, I'm not obstructing anyone, and it is perfectly legal to park there.
I do not like my neighbour parking his car on the road where I live, but I have no legal right to stop him doing that or to stick stuff to his car.

There is NO WHERE else to park that is free and within walking distance of the work place ... do you want me to catch a 90min bus ride, or drive there in 20 min?

T_Pot said:

You handled that well...

I was impressed with the turn out, 1 cop car with 2 full clothed cops, a cop on a bicycle, a non-unformed "employee" (it wasn't a warrant card that he showed me) of the police and a PCSO.

BDZ said:

There's no requirement for a cop to show you his ID unless he's searching you and in plain clothes.

The plain clothes guy's ID simply said he was employed by Thames Valley Police, it was not a proper warrant card.
And why should he not show me his ID, how do I know he is a real cop and not someone who bought a £5 ebay?

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 19:02

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 19:04

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ajstephe said:

What do you think a proper warrant card is?

That?
Some holo images etc, so that it cannot be faked "easily".

What I saw was just a plain looking ID card, on plain plastic, no holographic images, something I could probably make it about 5 minutes

Pothole said:

looks like there is a free car park neaby http://en.parkopedia.co.uk/parking/uk/oxford/ 4 hours max, but then you could just drive out and back in again at lunchtime

I know about that one, it's just down the road. But I don't really fancy walking there at lunch to drive around ... besides I'd probably still get a ticket even if I move the car ... good luck proving you moved it.
I prefer the street parking

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 19:11

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vonhosen said:

rypt said:

ajstephe said:

What do you think a proper warrant card is?

That?
Some holo images etc, so that it cannot be faked "easily".

What I saw was just a plain looking ID card, on plain plastic, no holographic images, something I could probably make it about 5 minutes

That could be anyone.

What the pic, or the plain non holo one I was "shown"?

berg1 said:

Parrot of Doom said:

The parking issue aside, I'm glad you were fined for littering. From the tone of your post I'm not surprised you were done, you sound like a mouthy little cockbag.

Apologies if you're not.

Is this the same person who has previously bragged about barging in at the end of queues

I don't remember barging in at end of queues ...

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 19:12

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Meoricin said:

If you weren't interfering with the residents' access/parking, then they wouldn't have bothered sticking a note to your windscreen. The logical assumption for them is that one of their neighbours has got a new car, unless they are close enough to all of the neighbours to check. And if they are, it's probably private for a very small amount of people, 5-10 or so, and so space is particularly valuable.

It is a large apartment block area, with plenty of dedicated parking. Only a few cars park there otherwise, and do so during the day ... when the people who live there are SURELY at work.
I spoke briefly to the Aston driver who drove by, and then walked back to see why I had so many police officers out. He was the one that said that it is some local nutter doing it to the cars, he also found it silly that I got fined for dropping a few bits of paper (given the empty packet of crisps just chilling by the side of the road)

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 19:26

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OnTheOverrun said:

Parrot of Doom said:

The parking issue aside, I'm glad you were fined for littering. From the tone of your post I'm not surprised you were done, you sound like a mouthy little cockbag.

Apologies if you're not.

It does look that way to me as well.

OP - have you noticed that the road you mention isn't actually on google maps? It's on the satellite view but not on the map view which suggests is may well be private. The big red signs at the entrance to the cul-de-sac specifically prohibit parking by Berkeley Homes sub-contractors - is that where you are working?

It is not where I work, I work at a place 5 min down the main road.

They can prohibit parking all they like, it is a PUBLIC road (even if it is owned by them), and as such any parking prohibition notices need to be done in accordance with the legal requirement - which none of the notices meet.

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BDZ said:

rypt said:

BDZ said:

There's no requirement for a cop to show you his ID unless he's searching you and in plain clothes.

The plain clothes guy's ID simply said he was employed by Thames Valley Police, it was not a proper warrant card.
And why should he not show me his ID, how do I know he is a real cop and not someone who bought a £5 ebay?

Well how do you know the other cop wasn't wearing fake uniform he bought off E-bay? How do you know the FPN wasn't made on photoshop?

Only way you can be sure is not to pay the FPN and see what happens.

As I said, I was asking for a UNIFORMED officer to show me their WARRANT CARD before I would give them any details.

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BDZ said:

rypt said:

BDZ said:

rypt said:

BDZ said:

There's no requirement for a cop to show you his ID unless he's searching you and in plain clothes.

The plain clothes guy's ID simply said he was employed by Thames Valley Police, it was not a proper warrant card.
And why should he not show me his ID, how do I know he is a real cop and not someone who bought a £5 ebay?

Well how do you know the other cop wasn't wearing fake uniform he bought off E-bay? How do you know the FPN wasn't made on photoshop?

Only way you can be sure is not to pay the FPN and see what happens.

As I said, I was asking for a UNIFORMED officer to show me their WARRANT CARD before I would give them any details.

And, as I said, there is no requirement for an officer to show you their warrant card when in uniform and issuing an FPN. Out of interest what would you have done if he didn't have it with him or refused to show it?

Say I do not believe you are a police officer and as such will not give you any of my details?

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BDZ said:

rypt said:

BDZ said:

rypt said:

BDZ said:

rypt said:

BDZ said:

There's no requirement for a cop to show you his ID unless he's searching you and in plain clothes.

The plain clothes guy's ID simply said he was employed by Thames Valley Police, it was not a proper warrant card.
And why should he not show me his ID, how do I know he is a real cop and not someone who bought a £5 ebay?

Well how do you know the other cop wasn't wearing fake uniform he bought off E-bay? How do you know the FPN wasn't made on photoshop?

Only way you can be sure is not to pay the FPN and see what happens.

As I said, I was asking for a UNIFORMED officer to show me their WARRANT CARD before I would give them any details.

And, as I said, there is no requirement for an officer to show you their warrant card when in uniform and issuing an FPN. Out of interest what would you have done if he didn't have it with him or refused to show it?

Say I do not believe you are a police officer and as such will not give you any of my details?

So would you demand to see the custody sergeant's warrant card when he was booking you in after you'd been arrested? After all, it could be a fake police station staffed by actors.

I would have the legal right to resist arrest if I'm under the impression that the officer is not really an officer ... hence why police should identify themselves

Edited by rypt on Wednesday 26th May 20:33

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An officer refusing to show ID would to most people be enough to make them think that something is not right

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Because the plod should be out doing something useful, like investigating criminal damage and the like not wasting time with plastic plod doing bugger all useful

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Plastic Plod was already giving me a ticket before I refused to give him my details until he got some real uninformed officers who produced me their warrant cards. So I didn't get 2difficult" until I was already being given a ticket, the onyl thing I asked was "under what powers are you issuing me a ticket" to see if he knew or not

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I admit to being difficult once he was already giving me a ticket, because at that point it stopped being "oh it's some plod talking about something" and turned into an adversarial exchange with someone I don't actually have any respect for

Edited by rypt on Thursday 27th May 11:36

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Because mr plastic is not helping the community, he is just generating some stealth taxes.

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So basically you lot now simply have cards that are easy to fake ... great to know, I think I'll go make my self one and get some ebay uniform and badge