Discussion about RED diesel

[AJI]

Just been having a discussion with a work colleague about the mis-use of RED diesel.

Example case in question:

Joe Bloggs is a normal office worker commuting to work in a rural town. He has a farmer friend who he agrees to pay for supply of RED diesel to go in to his 2L TDi family estate car.
One day Mr Bloggs gets stopped by police after a tip-off and red diesel is found in the tank of the car.
Mr Bloggs has owned the car from new for 20 years and has done 200,000 miles since purchase. Mr Bloggs has only used red diesel un-lawfully in his car for the last one month prior to being stopped.


My work colleague says that customs and excise will take over this 'case' and they will seek to recover tax on the red diesel not only on the one month admitted use of the fuel by Mr Bloggs, but also on the entire milage of the vehicle from new. Ie. they make the assumption that red diesel has been un-lawfully used for the entire 200,000 miles.
I dissagreed by saying that proof is required onthe amount of red diesel used and proof in this case will not be forthcoming, therefore they will only be able to fine him and recover tax on whatever they find in the tank and/or whatever has been admitted by Mr Bloggs.



Any views on this?

[AJI]

Marlin45 said:

'My work colleague says that customs and excise will take over this 'case' and they will seek to recover tax on the red diesel not only on the one month admitted use of the fuel by Mr Bloggs, but also on the entire milage of the vehicle from new. Ie. they make the assumption that red diesel has been un-lawfully used for the entire 200,000 miles'.

This is what will happen

So it is a charge based on the age/milage of the vehicle and not the amount of red diesel used?
A sort of guilty unless you can prove otherwise.


The main reason we got on to this subject was because we were talking about veg oil as diesel engine fuel and how (aparently) the government can allow you 21,000miles before you have to declare it.
How do they measure how much you have used?
MOT? = no, because this simply just states milage, not what fuel is being used. And also not what percentage mix you are using etc.

[AJI]

AndyAudi said:

Pretty much

Used to work with a fuel co so we did get all the info on it.

From what I recall

£250 fine for putting it in
&
£250 fine for using it
&
Car may be kept until a further fine paid which is calculated based on HMRC's mileage calculation.

I know that 5 years ago there were only 2 detecting units in Scotland, which mainly dipped lorries & 4X4's in agricultural communities.

So taking this forward and applying it to the vegetable oil that can be put in to diesel engines......I can't find a figure for how many miles you can use before declaring it....all I can find is that you must declare all uses of veg oil etc. if using as a fuel.
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/ch...

Soooo.....I am guessing that if you are 'dipped' and found to be using veg oil not declared, the same procedure would be taken as if you are using red diesel?

ie. fine and calculations based on the total milage of the vehicle, no matter how much veg oil you've put in.

Seems harsh.

[AJI]

AndyAudi said:

From HMRC
Onus is on user to keep a record of how much is used & when.
Allowed to use up to 2500 litres a year before duty needs to be paid and more detailed records submitted.

HMRC Says

Cheers Andy. That makes sense now.