Which all purpose lens for D810 ?

[ExPat2B]

Finally in a postion to buy the D810, ( I was waiting for the 5Ds to debut and it did 't impress me ) ....however the question that is perplexing me is which lens to get as the all purpose lens.

I currently use a 35mm 1.8 on DX almost exclusively.

I don't use my kit zoom, not because I have something against zooms, but because its a very disapointing lens unless its bright and I can stop down to f8.

I would really like a Nikon 28-70 2.8 pro zoom but I can't help feeling now is a really bad time to buy one..Nikon are rumoured to replace it with a phase fresnel, Tokina have announced a 28-70 2.8 . And I can't help feeling that the Nikon is 7 years old and not quite up to the D810.


So I am considering other options....

Nikon 1.8 prime kits - 20mm , 35mm, 50mm and 85mm . Cheapish, light, and sharpish.

Considering just buying a 50mm Nikon and waiting.

Sigma 1.4 prime kits, they will have a full set soon and will be the sharpest fastest glass available.

But then I keep coming back to the reason I want a zoom...my kids are getting mobile and a prime is getting very limiting...I keep getting badly framed shots.

The Tamron 24-70 is one current offering however I am really put off by the lack lustre VR ( which I dont need) and softness at 70mm.

[ExPat2B]

Budget is about 5000 pounds. I don't want to waste money, but if it is the right solution I will buy it. I am a patient man, but my kids are growing up fast and my current kit is missing too many shots due to lack of autofocus and ISO limitations. And I want a high pixel count for birding, macro and nature photography. Also D810 offers face recognition focus in viewfinder and exposes for the skin tones which for me are "killer" apps - I currently do a huge amount of manual work to get faces and eyes correctly exposed and would like to offload this to the camera.

I would dearly love the Canon Mk2 24-70 2.8 ......that is the lens that was tempting me over to the dark side. However Canon don't want to invest in their sensor fab technique or use Sony sensors, my Dad shoots a 5d Mk3 and I hate processing the RAW files compared to my Nikon, horrible banding in the shadows you can't automatically remove. The 5DS is just an upscaled 7Dmk2 sensor and for that reason I am oot.n

[ExPat2B]

RE: D7100 - I have pretty much the same sensor already, and I find I am often banging my head on upper levels of the acceptable ISO, - I find 3200 to be be borderline unacceptable even after DXO optics has worked its magic on noise reduction.

D810's sensor seems to be acceptable up to 6400 and borderline at 12,800, and I have tried test processing a few RAW files and once you downsample a 36mp file it gives another stop of noise reduction..so I think its going to be enough.. I worry about skin tones and eyes, I find there is very naturally little dynamic range in skin tones, and although eyes have good contrast they have little tonal range, so they are very sensitive to the dynamic range reduction a high ISO causes.

RE : those lens selections, 200mm, 135 DC, 85.

- great telephoto and portrait options, but I need something hand holdable, and something I can have in one hand and playing with my son with the other hand. I am already running into issues cutting faces off as I am too close with a 50mm equivalent lens, and when do I switch to a F4 12-24 Tokina, but it is quite soft at 24mm...it doesn't satisfy. I have 100mm 2.8 Tokina, it is probably my best quality lens ( stopped down to f4 + ) , but I just don't use it very much as at 135mm eqiv on my DX sensor its too long, and swapping over a lens mid play breaks the flow. It is a great wildlife and Macro lens, got some lovely bug and lizard shots from it.

I would include the 85 in a Nikon f1.8 prime set, I am thinking AFS 20mm 1.8, 35mm, 50mm, and 85mm, would cost less than £1500......wouldn't weigh very much and balance nicely on the camera...I am very tempted.

RE: Lighting I have a pair of Youngnuo 568 speedlights ( supports TTL and High speed sync ) and mini softboxes, and a Rayflash adapter and a 622 wireless controller, however flash is not appropriate for all situations.

I would be ok if I could use my tripod (Gitzo Systemic 3 carbon- I am in the odd postion where my tripod is worth more than my camera and lens combined..) and take a static scene, but kids move a lot and I need 1/200 to 1/500 shutter minimum.

Maybe I should just get the holy trinity, 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 and be done with it.......but I suspect I will be using the 24-70 most and I think its the weakest link and I will have to replace it soon........and its irking me to think that I will spend 1k on a lens that isn't up the d810's sensor and is due to be outclassed ( IF Tokina have their act together...) or replaced by Nikon with a lighter sharper phase Fresnel design in the next year.....the 24-70 seems to be following the trajectory of the 300f4 regarding discounts which makes me very suspicous.

[ExPat2B]

The problem is Beano, the 24-70 holds its value so well second hand. Good condition ones go for very nearly the same price as new ones.......

For example Grays have one-

24-70mm f/2.8G ED AF-S IF-ED Nikkor
Boxed with hood, case and manual. MINT- £1025.00

Amazon yesterday had it for 1135 ( although its gained 100 and back up to 1230 pounds overnight )

Slightly foxed ones are going on ebay for 900 pounds...down to 700 for damaged ones...

You do have a point though..

[ExPat2B]

GetCarter said:

I have the D800. Apart from primes, I use 24-70 f2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 with a .7 teleconverter. They are both very fine lenses. Apparently some of the 24-70s can be soft at the edges so be careful if you go that route. (Mine isn't).

Do you find that much real world image quality is lost between the primes vs the pro zooms ?

Is the Cromatic abberation on the 24-70 actually a problem in the real world ? My current 35mm has quite a lot of CA at F1.8 and I find fringing on the transition between pupil and the whites of the eyes, it really annoys me and doesn't automatically correct well, so I rarely shoot at 1.8 and tend to stop down to 2.8....

[ExPat2B]

Simpo Two said:

_dobbo_ said:

What is making you worry that the 24-70 isn't up to the sensor? It's widely regarded as one of the best zooms ever made by Nikon.

Because it's seven years old, and therefore out of date... Glass v8.4 is out now you know!

Its one of the best Nikkor zooms, agreed.

I have been staring at test charts, sample images etc all day and I think I can draw a few conclusions.

It is sharper than my current 35mm 1.8 DX and 24 mpix sensor combo by some considerable margin. Since I am reasonably satisfied with that, it follows that I should be happy with the D810 and the 24-70.

However, it doesn't make full use of the 36mpix sensor. It is very sharp in the middle, but has a lot of chromatic aberration at the corners, particularly at 24mm / f2.8, and does not give its best performance wide open at any aperture. I have viewed a number of full size pics taken with the d810 and it is visible in normal pictures not just confined to test charts. You don't have to pixel peep to see the problems, you can see them clearly on a normal computer screen resolution. 70mm is much better.

The Tamron 24-70 is better at the 24 mm end and worse at 70mm unless you stop it down to f5.6. Much less CA visible, but still some present. I did some lightroom analysis, and with my kit lens I take about 60% of my pictures at 70mm equiv, so this performance is very disappointing for the Tamron but very positive for the Nikon.. however the same analysis showed I did about 10% of shooting at 24mm, I seem to go from one extreme of the lens to the other, so I am a little concerned about the Nikkor.

It is handily beaten by the Canon 24-70 USM II. In fact the 5D MK3 and 24-70 USM II produce a better sharper image, with less distortion than the D810 and Nikkor lens over wider aperture range....despite the Nikon's Mpix advantage ....which does make me question the wisdom of buying a D810 in the first place if I am going to use the 24-70 as its primary lens. Of course, I would have a shadow recovery advantage with the Exmoor sensor, but I would still have that on a D750, the lens is very much the limiting factor not the sensor. When knows what the Canon 5DS-R with the 24-70 will perform like...I suspect, very, very well indeed.

The Sigma 50mm ART makes mincemeat of it, good wide open, vastly better at f2.8 and stopped down to f8 it is sharper, over the entire image, than the Nikkor is in the centre 30%, and has virtually no CA. Not really an apples to apples comparison, but again you don't need to pixel peep to see the difference.

Both Tokina and Sigma are due to produce competitive lenses this year. However, based on Sigma's rather lacklustre 24-100 f4 ART ( cheaper than Nikon or Canon, but no competition on image quality ) it does not seem the same genius they are applying to their primes follows into their zooms...

Hmmmm. I have talked myself into and out of the purchase twice already today. Maybe the best option is to get both the Nikon, and get the Sigma 50mm art as well in order to take advantage of the D810, then sell the 24-70 when the updated Nikkor arrives.

Maybe I am being very fussy, but dammit, I work hard for my money and it took me a long time to save up, and I don't like accepting compromises when I am buying at the top of the market.

[ExPat2B]

So how completely insane would I be to consider buying this :

Hasselblad H3D-39, 39 megapixel, 16 bit digital camera with only 7689 frames

Current price: £2,500.00
End time: 28-Feb-15 13:10:46 GMT

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201292526788

[ExPat2B]

Hmmmmm ISO 400 Max, slow, central phase only autofocus....yes utter certifiable loony. I suppose I could always follow the children around with a set of flashes, lights stands,umbrellas and a tripod. Would certainly be an icebreaker at the playground.

It's got a certain something though.

[ExPat2B]

Simpo Two said:

You could hang around in bars saying 'I've got a Hasselhof 5000 you know'

My apartment smells of rich mahogany.

[ExPat2B]

DSC_5573 by pistonheads_tests, on Flickr

The deed is done !

I played with the Sigma for an hour in the shop. It is very, very sharp. And very impressive over the entire frame. However the 24-70 matches it in the middle 70% of the frame, and is as sharp as a prime in that area, it easily resolved down to single pixel level on the d810's sensor.

The chromatic aberration on the 24-70 at 24mm and f2.8 is visible in a ring around the centre 70% as blue fringing. However, you have to really push to see it, and software does a good job of correcting it, although it does mean a slight drop in sharpness. At 70mm and 2.8, my favoured setting, the chromatic aberration disappears and it is sharp across the frame.

The 24-70 wins on autofocus really comprehensively however. In low light, in AF-C mode, with focus mode enabled it easily tracked a moving subject with low contrast with 100% accuracy, with only a very slight drop in frame rate. The Sigma really struggled under the same conditions, and dropped down to only 1 fps when pushed. This was the killer decider for me as those are the conditions I will be using the camera under and this is area my D3200 really fails on.

I am hoping the best match as a dedicated landscape lens rather than a prime will be the new Tamron 15-30, which overlaps the weak areas of the 24-70....I will make another thread in due course.

D810 is fantastic overall so far, the high ISO noise is much lower than I feared it would be, its not Canon 6D good but ISO 6400 is usable, and ISO 100 is just absurdly good, massive latitude in the RAW files with overexposed/underexposed skin tones which the D3200 really struggled with.

Face recognition autofocus in the view finder really works, I set to 35mm, held the camera at waist height and ran backwards with my son following, and it focused on his eyes perfectly in almost the entire sequence.

As a bonus, it works perfectly with the TC16 A teleconverter, so my old manual Nikon lenses now have limited autofocus, and also focus trapping works, so I just hold down the shutter, point the lens at the target and it starts shooting once approximate focus is dialled in.

[ExPat2B]

How do you find the autofocus performance of the Sigma 50mm compared to the 24-70, especially shooting bursts in low light on moving targets ? The one I tested was not able to match the 24-70 f2.8 .. I have heard that Sigma lenses are variable so it may just have been the copy I tested.

[ExPat2B]

Thanks for that, they are really nice images you have posted, I think I will pick up a set of Sigma primes at some point. Maybe when the kids slow down a little and will pose for portraits.