2.8 Cologne timing gear
Discussion
Couldn't find any previous posting on this one. Mine is an S1 with the 2.8 engine. I am about to (very carefully!) rebuild my spare engine to replace the tired one that is in at the moment. The 2.8 has the 'fibre' gear tooth ring on the iron cam gear. I have heard that these can give trouble and strip. The alternative is an alloy cam gear wheel of the type sold by Burton.
But has anybody actually had a problem with one of these cam gear wheels? Is it a myth or an issue I really need to face?
But has anybody actually had a problem with one of these cam gear wheels? Is it a myth or an issue I really need to face?
Might be worth adding a bit more on this for 2.8 owners.
I have now spoken to 2 engine re-manufacturers and 2 tuning part specialists. The consensus is:
Essex engine, fibre tooth cam wheel break up is an acknowledged problem.
Cologne engine, break up of fibre tooth cam wheel is virtually unheard of even when tuned. Check that there are no significant signs of wear (and these wheels apparently wear very well)or damage caused by debris in oil or careless removal, if good then no need to replace even at high mileage.
I have now checked, with an engine re-manufacturer, cam wheels from 3 engines, all appear perfect.*
There is also the opinion that fitting a metal wheel, apart from greatly increased noise,would be likely to increase wear in the cam drive. I will refit a fibre toothed cam gear.
(*bit of a puzzle came out though, the cam wheels differed in weight quite significantly. One appeared to have a thinner web in the casting than the others although all the crucial fit dimensions were the same.)
I have now spoken to 2 engine re-manufacturers and 2 tuning part specialists. The consensus is:
Essex engine, fibre tooth cam wheel break up is an acknowledged problem.
Cologne engine, break up of fibre tooth cam wheel is virtually unheard of even when tuned. Check that there are no significant signs of wear (and these wheels apparently wear very well)or damage caused by debris in oil or careless removal, if good then no need to replace even at high mileage.
I have now checked, with an engine re-manufacturer, cam wheels from 3 engines, all appear perfect.*
There is also the opinion that fitting a metal wheel, apart from greatly increased noise,would be likely to increase wear in the cam drive. I will refit a fibre toothed cam gear.
(*bit of a puzzle came out though, the cam wheels differed in weight quite significantly. One appeared to have a thinner web in the casting than the others although all the crucial fit dimensions were the same.)
Hi Richard, I very much doubt you will have fractured the gear wheel as it is rather 'over-engineered'! Having researched this I wouldnt go down the alloy wheel route unless I was racing the engine and accepted regular rebuilds. If you are really unhappy using the original gear wheel then I am pretty sure I can dig up a good one from my shelves of 2.8 bits.
Hi Richard, hmmm, not quite as good as I thought. I do have one spare but it isnt perfect, on examination I have found a chip on one tooth and a couple of other small marks. It came from an engine with about 95k miles on it. I would be perfectly happy to post it to you for the cost of postage if you want it, and you can make a judgement between the one you have and this one. Alternatively you might be lucky and find someone from the Wedge forum or the Capri Owners Club who might have a perfect one for sale.
I dont blame you. I did consider the alloy gear mainly because lightening the extremely heavy cam gearing would be an advantage, much more so in my opinion, than lightening the flywheel. This is an engine which delivers loads of torque but doesnt like high revs. If you are thinking of lightening to increase revs then you will have to look very seriously at the con rods and particularly fitting higher spec big end retaining bolts. I really would have a good talk with Burton Engineering, despite the experience you had, they do have guys there who understand the Cologne engine and their technical catalogue does contain advice (and indeed warnings) about trying to tune this engine. At the end of the day, the siamesed ports and the nature of the K-Jet system inevitably limit tuning potential unless you want to spend a silly amount!
The advice I got from both Burton Power and a very well respected local engine builder was that the fibre gears on the Essex V6 engine do fail, but not those on the Cologne V6. They would only consider the metal gear appropriate for a race engine. We did ask around via this forum if anybody knew of a Cologne engine cam gear failure. As yet nobody has reported such a failure, but if anybody knows different then please do add that advice. We are talking her of KNOWN failures, not hearing someone who thought they had heard someone else had had a failure.
Conversely we did have someone who took a steel gear off (and offered it) because of the noise!
Burton will advise you that the primary structural weakness of the Cologne engine, if overrevved, is the big end bolts stretching and they are one of several suppliers of stronger big end bolts.
Conversely we did have someone who took a steel gear off (and offered it) because of the noise!
Burton will advise you that the primary structural weakness of the Cologne engine, if overrevved, is the big end bolts stretching and they are one of several suppliers of stronger big end bolts.
In my experience it would be unusual to find a Cologne with Torx head bolts but I stand to be corrected in respect perhaps of later engines.
My understanding of the change in cam gears, supported by forums where the earlier Essex engines are involved is that failures in gears on Essex engines led to improvements in design and material for the Cologne engine and that the Cologne as fitted to later Capris, and Granadas and Sierras, proved pretty reliable. I simply do not believe that the fibre gear on the Cologne was WORSE than that of the Essex. However a pretty detailed article about Capri engines does suggest the timimg gear problems did continue into the 2.8 Cologne (not the 2.9 of course as that has completely different cam drive arrangements). See:
http://www.fordcaprilaser.co.uk/page124.html
I have however yet to hear any direct evidence of a 2.8 S stripping its cam gears. Can anybody shed any light on this issue: Fact or Myth?
One point I forgot to mention on earlier postings. If the engine has been allowed to become very dirty, if for example the oil is filthy or the engine has accumulated a good deal of rust inside, then another problem with the fibre gear arises. Dirt can get pressed into the surface of the fibre gear, it can get so bad that the surface of the fibre gear starts to deteriorate. What however is sometimes overlooked is that the dirt in the face of the fibre gear accelerates the wear on the steel crankshaft pinion. For that reason, if the fibre gear looks dodgy then BOTH have to be replaced or the worn steel crankshaft pinion will soon damage the new cam gear, whatever material it is made of.
My understanding of the change in cam gears, supported by forums where the earlier Essex engines are involved is that failures in gears on Essex engines led to improvements in design and material for the Cologne engine and that the Cologne as fitted to later Capris, and Granadas and Sierras, proved pretty reliable. I simply do not believe that the fibre gear on the Cologne was WORSE than that of the Essex. However a pretty detailed article about Capri engines does suggest the timimg gear problems did continue into the 2.8 Cologne (not the 2.9 of course as that has completely different cam drive arrangements). See:
http://www.fordcaprilaser.co.uk/page124.html
I have however yet to hear any direct evidence of a 2.8 S stripping its cam gears. Can anybody shed any light on this issue: Fact or Myth?
One point I forgot to mention on earlier postings. If the engine has been allowed to become very dirty, if for example the oil is filthy or the engine has accumulated a good deal of rust inside, then another problem with the fibre gear arises. Dirt can get pressed into the surface of the fibre gear, it can get so bad that the surface of the fibre gear starts to deteriorate. What however is sometimes overlooked is that the dirt in the face of the fibre gear accelerates the wear on the steel crankshaft pinion. For that reason, if the fibre gear looks dodgy then BOTH have to be replaced or the worn steel crankshaft pinion will soon damage the new cam gear, whatever material it is made of.
Absolutely no question about it; new cam needs new followers. If the old cam is worn the followers should have about the same wear, put the old and the new together and the 'rough' old will soon wear the 'smooth' new.
One point re the old head bolts. These are not very sophisticated engines, they have straightforward cast iron everything! No alloy barrels and stressed liners, the bolts are not required to have the elasticity of modern engines. However the bolts do need to be clean and to go into clean holes so the torque reading is 'true' for each. These bolts are often rusty and the holes dirty, make sure they are clean first before re-using and that the mating faces between the underneath of the bolt head and the head itself are also clean.
One thing that is easily forgotten when checking the head bolt tension after a first run. Owners will often take the opportunity to re-check valve clearances as well, but may well forget to re-check the rocker shaft pillar bolts. I forgot once and one came loose! Made a hell of a row, I thought the engine was a gonner, fortunately no damage was done.
One point re the old head bolts. These are not very sophisticated engines, they have straightforward cast iron everything! No alloy barrels and stressed liners, the bolts are not required to have the elasticity of modern engines. However the bolts do need to be clean and to go into clean holes so the torque reading is 'true' for each. These bolts are often rusty and the holes dirty, make sure they are clean first before re-using and that the mating faces between the underneath of the bolt head and the head itself are also clean.
One thing that is easily forgotten when checking the head bolt tension after a first run. Owners will often take the opportunity to re-check valve clearances as well, but may well forget to re-check the rocker shaft pillar bolts. I forgot once and one came loose! Made a hell of a row, I thought the engine was a gonner, fortunately no damage was done.
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